# Your kid's getting a B in math -- oh, and he's fat. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 19, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592 "2005-01-19T18:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/21 "2005-01-19T20:37:01Z")
Okay, been fat all my life. Tada. Don’t need another reminder, thanks. In fact, I’d have hated this in school. To be honest, school was one of the only places where I did well as a kid; was never social, wasn’t athletic or outgoing. Last thing I woulda needed was a reason to feel like I was doing poorly in school, too. Before anyone says, “That’s not what this is for.” I say bullshit. It’s a shame tactic. It’s to say, “Hey you’re fat.” Or, “Hey, your kid is fat.” Nothing else. Just remember, the nation has an epidemic of obesity. This is bad. I can agree with that. What I can’t agree with is the fact that it is quickly becoming the socially acceptable prejudice. I -still- get insulted cos I’m fat. I’m not asking for pitty for it; I’m just asking for a little fucking common respect. People don’t rag on folks for other physical disabilities. Just this one. And it’s okay, because, well, it was obviously my choice. Yep. I just sit here eating all the time and I -want- to be fat. Uh huh. Okay. Keep targetting me, cos I know you like a biiiiiiig target. Whatever. Sorry, didn’t mean to rant so much. But I get sick of seeing the overweight become the convenient target when they’ve already got enough problems. We don’t target other people -because- of their problems, yet being fat seems to make it all okay. Go ahead and give them all the shit you want… I’ve a lot more to say on the subject, but I’ll stop now. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/22 "2005-01-19T20:38:05Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Unlike everything else on your list, shame does not help anyone lose weight so lets not go around shaming our children, all right? How does it not help anyone lose weight? Being ashamed of my fat, ugly body was the greatest single factor that drove me to lose weight. Shame was much more motivating then thinking about how my risk of colon cancer would decrease 34% if I lost 10 pounds. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/23 "2005-01-19T20:43:57Z")
> [@SusanStoHelit](#): > > That would be great, if it happened. However, just like we can’t leave it up to parents to educate kids about sex, tolerance, or diversity, we also can’t assume that a parent will educate their child about proper nutrition and weight management. OK, but can we start the education part first, before sending home the ‘grade’ on the report card? School lunches have always been heavy on the starches and fats, but if what the papers report is true, an awful lot of schools are opting to serve stuff that’s not all that different from what they could get at MickeyD’s or Pizza Hut, which is even worse than back in the day. And thanks to right-wing anti-tax fervor, schools are making up revenue shortfalls by granting contracts to Pepsi, Coke, and junk food purveyors to put soda and snack machines in their schools. Kick the junk food machines out of the schools, have their cafeterias serve healthy and at least semi-appealing lunches, and THEN let’s try putting BMI on the report cards. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/24 "2005-01-19T20:50:25Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > How does it not help anyone lose weight? Being ashamed of my fat, ugly body was the greatest single factor that drove me to lose weight. Shame was much more motivating then thinking about how my risk of colon cancer would decrease 34% if I lost 10 pounds. Don’t be stupid. Shame does not help anyone lose weight. All shame does is make people ashamed. It doesn’t raise your metabolism, it doesn’t reduce calories, it doesn’t exercise your muscles. All it does is make you ashamed. Knowing losing 10 pounds will decrease your risk of colon cancer by 34% is great motivation-- what the fuck does that have to do with whether your parents made you feel ashamed of yourself? ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/25 "2005-01-19T20:51:49Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > How does it not help anyone lose weight? Being ashamed of my fat, ugly body was the greatest single factor that drove me to lose weight. Shame was much more motivating then thinking about how my risk of colon cancer would decrease 34% if I lost 10 pounds. Shame is fine if you’ve got a goal you can work towards with a reasonable chance of making it a temporary condition. What’s the point of going through the effort to lose weight when you’re talking about 25 or 50 lbs, a project that will take months to do in a healthy manner? By the time you’re down to your goal, you’ve become irredeemably labelled in the mind of all one’s peers and in one’s own mind as ‘fat.’ And nothing can be done to change that. Then, that ignores the fact that in my own experience public school teachers enjoy egging on students to make sure that the misfits are properly ostracized. We’re not talking a little embarassment, we’re talking a life long label. One that, as I said, I’ve carried ever since. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/26 "2005-01-19T20:57:44Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > OK, but can we start the education part first, before sending home the ‘grade’ on the report card? > > School lunches have always been heavy on the starches and fats, but if what the papers report is true, an awful lot of schools are opting to serve stuff that’s not all that different from what they could get at MickeyD’s or Pizza Hut, which is even worse than back in the day. And thanks to right-wing anti-tax fervor, schools are making up revenue shortfalls by granting contracts to Pepsi, Coke, and junk food purveyors to put soda and snack machines in their schools. > > Kick the junk food machines out of the schools, have their cafeterias serve healthy and at least semi-appealing lunches, and THEN let’s try putting BMI on the report cards. ITA, and it is long past time for public school systems to do something about the fat-factory that is the lunch line. However, letting a parent know (confidentially) that their kid is not healthy doesn’t sound like a bad idea to me. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/27 "2005-01-19T21:00:38Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Don’t be stupid. Shame does not help anyone lose weight. Well, it certainly helped me lose weight. Shame is probably the biggest single reason _why_ people want to loose weight. For whatever reason, being obese just doesn’t fit into our standards of beauty and we feel ashamed when we don’t meet those standards. Obesity isn’t something that we, as a society, find physically attractive, and it’s a factor in how we judge people. I’m not saying that it’s “right,” or that it _should_ be a factor, or even that it’s a factor that can’t be overcome by other personal traits, just that it _is_ a major factor, and having your weight in a normal range brings notable social advantages. > [@Biggirl](#): > > All shame does is make people ashamed. And all talking does is make sounds! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/28 "2005-01-19T21:03:31Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > By the time you’re down to your goal, you’ve become irredeemably labelled in the mind of all one’s peers and in one’s own mind as ‘fat.’ And nothing can be done to change that. Then, that ignores the fact that in my own experience public school teachers enjoy egging on students to make sure that the misfits are properly ostracized. Nonsense. I used to be fat. Now I’m not. I don’t think of myself as fat, and my peers don’t think of me as fat. I get your point that labels can stick, but peer groups can change, people can mature, and given enough time labels can be forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/29 "2005-01-19T21:10:35Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Well, it certainly helped me lose weight. Shame is probably the biggest single reason _why_ people want to loose weight. For whatever reason, being obese just doesn’t fit into our standards of beauty and we feel ashamed when we don’t meet those standards. Obesity isn’t something that we, as a society, find physically attractive, and it’s a factor in how we judge people. I’m not saying that it’s “right,” or that it _should_ be a factor, or even that it’s a factor that can’t be overcome by other personal traits, just that it _is_ a major factor, and having your weight in a normal range brings notable social advantages. > > And all talking does is make sounds! 😛 No, obesity is not something we as a society like on little tiny bit, there is no doubt about that. The shame machine against fat kids goes on 24/7 and it is NOT heathy for the parents of a fat child to jump on that shame machine. Seriously, if shame helps people lose weight, there would be no fat people. It is the parents job to be encouraging, to offer a good diet and opportunities to exercise. Their fat child gets enough shame from people like you. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/30 "2005-01-19T21:20:05Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > It is the parents job to be encouraging, to offer a good diet and opportunities to exercise. But what about when the parent isn’t doing their job, due to laziness, overwork, apathy, or blindness to the problem? Who says the parent even knows what a good diet and proper exercise is? If most people knew that, diet books wouldn’t sell and we’d be a nation of fit, thin Beautiful People. You can’t expect parents to give what they don’t have. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/31 "2005-01-19T21:21:00Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Seriously, if shame helps people lose weight, there would be no fat people. **Biggirl** , meet the [complex cause fallacy.](http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/complex.htm)[Complex cause fallacy](http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/complex.htm), meet **Biggirl**. > [@](#): > > Their fat child gets enough shame from people like you. :rolleyes: People who acknowledge that our society doesn’t like obesity, and think that’s a good reason to loose weight? Or do you think I like to walk around in an XS t-shirt laughing at fat children? ---
**Author:** ![Jurhael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@Jurhael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurhael)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/32 "2005-01-19T21:27:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Shame is probably the biggest single reason why people want to loose weight. For whatever reason, being obese just doesn’t fit into our standards of beauty and we feel ashamed when we don’t meet those standards. Who’s we? I know no shame, and I have no shame in being overweight. When people try to “shame” me into losing weight, all it does is anger me and makes me determined to keep the weight on. Don’t want them to think for a single moment that their ways would work on me. If I’m going to lose weight, I will do it FOR ME AND BECAUSE OF ME(not to mention my health). Everyone else is irrelevant. Then again, I don’t give a flying fuck what people think of me. Course, I admit, I have the luxery of being able to do that. Not everyone does, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![GraphicsGal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e0b2c6/32.png) [@GraphicsGal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GraphicsGal)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/33 "2005-01-19T21:27:54Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > I’d like to know more about why BMI isn’t a good indicator of health in kids Waist/Hip ratio is, to my knowledge, a more reasonable indicator that the body fat a person is carrying (not just a child), is distributed in such a way that the fat is more likely to serve as an indicator of health issues. Body fat carried primarily in the belly has been linked to blood sugar levels among other things. Body fat carried primarily in the hips, legs and thighs is not usually a good indicator that some health issues may be affected. A single measurement, no matter what it is, fails to take the whole person into consideration. As every person is different, every person’s weight issues must be viewed in context. The Cooper Institute in Texas has shown that moderate exercise not even necessarily accompanied by weight loss has significant health benefits. Their emphasis is on fitness, not just fatness. A fat person can be fit and reap all the health benefits of fitness without being thin. The social cost of fatness is devastating no matter what level of fitness the fat person attains. Children in particular suffer. Having been a fat child, a fat adult and an advocate for fat acceptance, I can say that from my own experience that the damage I have suffered emotionally all my life has hurt me more than any helath related issues. It was not until I learned to accept myself whatever size I happen to be, and recognized that people who had trouble with my weight could invite me to feel crummy but it was my decision to feel crummy, that I finally got off the fat-hatred band wagon and began to really live my life. There is an epidemic of obesity in this country and there will be health consequences. Concentrating on physical size alone will not help in the long run. Until the focus shifts to fitness and an atmosphere of acceptance for all types of body shapes comes around, people will just continue to diet, lose and regain weight endlessly, and we will all end up fatter. ---
**Author:** ![Anngela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/34f0e0/32.png) [@Anngela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anngela)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/34 "2005-01-19T21:34:00Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > Not to mention that it may give some teenage girls one more reason/way to obsess about their weight (carefully watching every point of their BMI number)? :mad: Let the kids’ doctors and parents worry about their weight! I was thinking the same thing. I can think of at least half a dozen of my friends (and high school for me was over 20 years ago) that would have totally gone off the deep end obesses andbout the BMI number on their report card. It was bad enough them being 98 lbs and “on a diet” because the thought their thighs jiggled. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/35 "2005-01-19T21:34:17Z")
This is an extremely dumb idea. Not only is BMI misleading since muscle weighs more than fat (many if not most professional athletes are rated as “obese” by it) but it is inherently problematic for growing children, whose bodies will be growing at different rates at any given time until pretty much the time they graduate from HS. It’s a system designed for adults who are finished growth. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/36 "2005-01-19T21:46:11Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > I’m under the impression that it’s common among schools these days to curttail any sort of gym class in order to meet the standards set in No Child Left Behind. If such is the case in Texas, it takes a hell of a lot of chutzpah to push for adding students’ weight to their report cards if they’re not getting help from the schools! I believe this is true–I remember hearing that IL (my state) is only one of 2 that still requires PE for it’s students. Sorry, no cite. No time to google, either. And don’t remeber the other state (MA? MI?) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/37 "2005-01-19T21:58:38Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > What’s the point of going through the effort to lose weight when you’re talking about 25 or 50 lbs, a project that will take months to do in a healthy manner? By the time you’re down to your goal, you’ve become irredeemably labelled in the mind of all one’s peers and in one’s own mind as ‘fat.’ I think you need to go back and change all the instances of “you” to “I.” I haven’t seen this much projection since they closed down the local drive-in theater. As to the OP, I was fat in school. Heck, I’m fat right now, although not nearly as fat as I used to be. I’m not sure if this bill is a good idea, because of problems with the methodology, but I sure don’t see it as outrageously, offensively bad, either. ---
**Author:** ![cvbster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@cvbster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cvbster)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/38 "2005-01-19T22:19:13Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > It’s a system designed for adults who are finished growth. Apparently it doesn’t work well for adults either. Look at these celebrities who are overweight: > [@](#): > > For instance, according to the public health establishment’s current BMI definitions, Brad Pitt, Michael Jordan, and Mel Gibson are all “overweight,” while Russell Crowe, George Clooney, and baseball star Sammy Sosa are all “obese.” Source: [http://www.mamashealth.com/book/omyth.asp](http://www.mamashealth.com/book/omyth.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/39 "2005-01-19T23:23:44Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > My self-image doesn’t change no matter what I weigh because I’ve been told my whole life I’m fat. So, when I starved myself and ran 4.5 miles a day 4 days a week, was constantly angry, and hungry, _and_ still felt I was too goddamned fat to be seen in polite company, what’s the fucking point? Or to put it another way: now I weigh 350#, and I feel just as healthy as I did when I was 180#. “Fat pride” really sticks in my craw. Obesity is not alright and until these “fat activists” stop pushing the feel good about yourself regardless of your weight agenda, there’s going to be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592/40 "2005-01-19T23:40:29Z")
b]Biggirl\*\*, meet the [complex cause fallacy.](http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/complex.htm)[Complex cause fallacy](http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/complex.htm), meet **Biggirl**. [/quote] Projecting much? Perhaps you should be pointing that definition at yourself. Maybe find out what causes obesity and what cures it. Or maybe it’s your circular thinking that’s throwing you off. You shouldn’t be fat because society shames you for being fat, so let’s cure the fatness by shaming people! Why, that’s _brilliant_! > [@Metacom](#): > > :rolleyes: People who acknowledge that our society doesn’t like obesity, and think that’s a good reason to loose weight? Or do you think I like to walk around in an XS t-shirt laughing at fat children? You were the one advocating shaming children into losing weight, were you not? So yea, when I say people like you I mean people like you. Now, let’s try again. How do fat people lose weight? By exercising more and eating less calories. That’s it. Shame does not cause anyone to lose weight. All shame does is cause shame. It’s easy, really. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-kids-getting-a-b-in-math-oh-and-hes-fat/285592.md?page=3)