# Your Opinion of the BEST and WORST POTUS in the Modern Era? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197 "2012-11-16T15:39:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/61 "2012-11-21T06:13:30Z")
Speaking of Presidential rankings by professional scholars … In a previous thread I linked to a page by a U.K. think tank that no longer seems to exist: [http://americas.sas.ac.uk/research/survey/overall.htm](http://americas.sas.ac.uk/research/survey/overall.htm) It seemed an excellent Presidential ranker. (It’s the USPC column in the Wikipedia article.) In addition to overall ranks, about 12 facets were assessed. (For example, Nixon was near the top on foreign policy, but at the very bottom for moral leadership.) Now I can’t find the page at the Wayback Machine, or anywhere else. There’s a chance I saved a copy; I’ll hunt for it if anyone says “Pretty please”, but shortage of proper USB ports means I can’t access Internet and external drive simultaneously from this laptop. :smack: ) I’m very curious now why the Institute for the Study of the Americas took the page down. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/62 "2012-11-21T19:05:27Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > 1901 is too far back for “modern era” - I really think you need to limit it to Post-WWII. Agreed. Best: Reagan, Eisenhower, Ford Worst: Obama, Carter, Johnson ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/63 "2012-11-21T19:34:02Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > In between there were several Presidents best described as “Jekyll-and-Hyde’s.” Among these, JFK is the standout. When he was good – space program, civil rights, Peace Corps, etc. – he was very very good. But when he was bad, he was horrid. JFK learned a great deal between The Bay of Pigs and The Cuban Missiles Crisis. Enough to do it so differently that it certainly avoided a war, quite possibly a nuclear war. He trusted the CIA and Pentagon for TBOP, and did not for TCMC. He thoroughly analyzed the screw ups in TBOP and did not repeat them. Hard to imagine anyone else doing an about face on toadying to the CIA and Pentagon, even Eisenhower. > [@chargerrich](#): > > Signed, not conceived… you think LBJ would have done this on his own? :rolleyes: > > Kennedy gets full credit for this IMO and I am not alone. Well, you aren’t alone, but I don’t agree. Kennedy did not have the chops to get it passed. Johnson worked Kennedy’s martyrdom and his own arm twisting skills like a rented mule to get it passed. It would not have passed if Kennedy were not killed and also if Johnson didn’t want it to be his legacy. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/64 "2012-11-21T19:55:17Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Agreed. > > Best: Reagan, Eisenhower, Ford > Worst: Obama, Carter, Johnson Of the posters with an actual list, you win the award for most partisan. From what I can see no such Dem partisan list has been posted. I mean- Ford? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/65 "2012-11-21T19:56:58Z")
Well, his only other options were Nixon and both Bushes. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/66 "2012-11-21T19:57:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I mean- Ford? Seriously? Pardoning Nixon is worth extra credit. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/67 "2012-11-21T21:45:06Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > JFK learned a great deal between The Bay of Pigs and The Cuban Missiles Crisis. Enough to do it so differently that it certainly avoided a war, quite possibly a nuclear war. He trusted the CIA and Pentagon for TBOP, and did not for TCMC. JFK and Kruschev were both always willing to do the Cuba for Turkey missile swap. That the crisis was allowed to escalate was strictly due to JFK’s unwillingness to lose face. There are many to blame for the Vietnam War, but surely JFK belongs near the top of the list since [he admitted in private he was intending to withdraw but was waiting until reelection in 1964.](http://books.google.com/books?id=NfvkfM8IbBsC&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181#v=onepage&q&f=false) (Look near bottom of that Google Book page.) Nevermind that JFK changed bimbos as often as he changed his shirts; one was an East German agent, another a Mafiosi moll. The way this man is kept on a pedestal is astounding. (When I asked a fellow Doper if he’d read _Dark Side of Camelot_, he didn’t answer but asked me if I’d read _Thousand Days_. :smack: Yeah, I read it … probably before that Doper was born.) ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/68 "2012-11-22T00:34:51Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > JFK and Kruschev were both always willing to do the Cuba for Turkey missile swap. That the crisis was allowed to escalate was strictly due to JFK’s unwillingness to lose face. > > There are many to blame for the Vietnam War, but surely JFK belongs near the top of the list since [he admitted in private he was intending to withdraw but was waiting until reelection in 1964.](http://books.google.com/books?id=NfvkfM8IbBsC&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181#v=onepage&q&f=false) (Look near bottom of that Google Book page.) > > Nevermind that JFK changed bimbos as often as he changed his shirts; one was an East German agent, another a Mafiosi moll. The way this man is kept on a pedestal is astounding. (When I asked a fellow Doper if he’d read _Dark Side of Camelot_, he didn’t answer but asked me if I’d read _Thousand Days_. :smack: Yeah, I read it … probably before that Doper was born.) Very well put-the “image” crafted by JFK’s handlers was all smoke and mirrors-the man was unprepared, and intellectually, ill-equipped to be president. The Bay of Pigs fiasco illustrated this-Kennedy could have saved the operation-had he ordered carrier based fighter planes to destroy the Cuban air force. He didn’t, and condemned the invaders to capture and death. Later, he saved face by having private charities pay Castro’s ransom demands! What a chump! Later, his propaganda machine spun this as a victory. Vietnam is another big disaster-but Kennedy had been clearly warned by Eisenhower-he walked in , with both eyes open. As for his bedroom activities-suffice to say that his “marriage” was a joke-JFK was banging hookers while his wife was in labor with a son-who died in childbirth. A real hero! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/69 "2012-11-22T01:21:39Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > JFK and Kruschev were both always willing to do the Cuba for Turkey missile swap. That the crisis was allowed to escalate was strictly due to JFK’s unwillingness to lose face. > > There are many to blame for the Vietnam War, but surely JFK belongs near the top of the list since [he admitted in private he was intending to withdraw but was waiting until reelection in 1964.](http://books.google.com/books?id=NfvkfM8IbBsC&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181#v=onepage&q&f=false) (Look near bottom of that Google Book page.) > > Nevermind that JFK changed bimbos as often as he changed his shirts; one was an East German agent, another a Mafiosi moll. The way this man is kept on a pedestal is astounding. (When I asked a fellow Doper if he’d read _Dark Side of Camelot_, he didn’t answer but asked me if I’d read _Thousand Days_. :smack: Yeah, I read it … probably before that Doper was born.) TBOP was strictly a Eisenhower gang holdover project that JFK didn’t have the experience to turn down or put off indefinitely. As for saving face, I suppose that you could interpret it that way, but it really ignores the reality that opposing partisans want the US President to lose face so they can use it politically. That was what the idiocy about Taiwan and Vietnam was all about. The modern day equivalent is Benghazi. You also seem to be painting the missile crisis very simplistically, even laughably so. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/70 "2012-11-22T01:51:09Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > TBOP was strictly a Eisenhower gang holdover project that JFK didn’t have the experience to turn down or put off indefinitely. … You also seem to be painting the missile crisis very simplistically, even laughably so. I’ve edited your post to emphasize the part where you help me make my own case 🆒 Every President is a relatively inexperienced “freshman” President once. Some have the humility and wisdom to cope, others fall victim to gullibility and/or arrogance. And please do laugh all you want at my comment about the missile crisis, deliberately terse just to emphasize the key point you ignored. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/71 "2012-11-22T02:11:23Z")
I don’t think we disagree on that. Eisenhower didn’t okay Dulles’ nutty scheme, or in fact kill the scheme. It was a doomed scheme. After the success of Tehran, which was ripe for such a scheme, it was repeated all over the world, never with as strong a measure of success. Despite all the nutty schemes of the CIA over the years, some guy named Castro still runs Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/72 "2012-11-22T03:28:44Z")
I am not a psychologist but lately I’ve seen a bit of the theory that Kennedy was a sex addict. I read that sex with him was described as unsatisfying, short, and mechanical. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/73 "2012-11-24T06:52:55Z")
> [@drew870mitchell](#): > > I am not a psychologist but lately I’ve seen a bit of the theory that Kennedy was a sex addict. I read that sex with him was described as unsatisfying, short, and mechanical. What did “Fiddle” and “Faddle” have to say about this?😉 ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/74 "2012-11-24T09:23:56Z")
If you take out 'gate, Nixon would leave most of them in the dust in the 20th century. And he won the debate with JFK, imho. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/75 "2012-11-25T00:31:46Z")
Whatever happened to the series of threads discussing each president in order? ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/76 "2012-11-25T03:06:02Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I’m sorry, but while I agree with you on Eisenhower, I disagree with you on Silent Cal (not a bad president, but certainly not great, and frankly, HE’s the reason for the Great Depression, or, at least, the policies of the government under his administration). It is very disappointing to me when large swaths of the population blame the great depression on Hoover, when clearly that trap was set by the government under Coolidge. Hoover was in about six months when the market crashed. I know of no policy changes that he made that would have changed the economic trajectory we were on. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/77 "2012-11-25T03:22:50Z")
Best: Ronald Wilson Reagan, because he was such an incredibly effective con artist who still has people hoodwinked Worst: Reagan, of course, for [tl;dr flood of pit-worthy invective], as well as setting the country on a course for an epic economic collapse. And I personally loathe his bones for pointlessly killing my friend Ben Linder, a person who was actually trying to do good for folks. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/78 "2012-11-25T04:03:56Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > In case you’re interested in how other, possibly better informed people have answered this question, I draw your attention to this Wikipedia page on [Historical Rankings of US Presidents](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankings_of_US_presidents). Jackson? JACKSON??? What liberal worthy of the name would put Jackson over pretty much anybody? Except, of course, VanBuren, Harrison, Tyler, Polk… We had some real clunkers in the 19th century. And I don’t understand the love for TR, though I have a fondness for his daughter, Alice. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/79 "2012-11-25T04:05:05Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Whatever happened to the series of threads discussing each president in order? You haven’t raised them from the dead yet? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197/80 "2012-11-25T08:37:08Z")
> [@Atakapa](#): > > WorstObama for continuing many of GWB’s policies and expanding on them. Allowing assassination of US citizens by discretion of the POTUS, increased drone strikes and domestic surveillance, expanded intervention in the Middle East, botched stimulus spending, Iraq and Afghan Wars. Depends on whether you see it as worse to commit a wrong act to begin with, or to have the power to reverse it and do nothing. Just noticed you didn’t mention he killed bin Laden, fought an intransigent congress to bring healthcare to millions, stabilize an economy in free fall when he first walked into the oval office, dissolved DOMA and Don’t Ask Don’t Tell (both choices made on the right side of history, bet) and shuffled off our responsibility for said cluster fuck in Iraq with dignity. I’m not saying he’s the best, your highlights just seem specifically selected is all. It’s as if you’re pissed at the mechanic for not fixing the car your son crashed into a tree fast enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-best-and-worst-potus-in-the-modern-era/641197.md?page=5)