# Your opinion of the Blue Wave **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 7, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108 "2018-11-07T00:32:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/81 "2018-11-08T03:36:09Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Exactly! And now he faces a House that is extremely hostile to him. So a change from Republicans who let him do what he wants to Democrats who don’t. Only if Republicans blocked him as much as Democrats would it be the same. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/82 "2018-11-08T03:39:39Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but all the tax returns that Democrats want from Trump are from \*\* before\*\* he won the presidency, right? What are they going to do - impeach him for something he did before he became president? Or do they just itch to scour over them and publish something? He’s likely done a lot of illegal shit. He deliberately avoided showing them for some reason. And we found a lot of shady stuff by talking to his lawyer. The point isn’t impeachment. Ideally, he could be prosecuted (though with Kavenaugh that may be difficult). If not, we can at least let the people know about him. He feared something about releasing them. Maybe there could even be some quid pro quo. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/83 "2018-11-08T03:46:33Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but all the tax returns that Democrats want from Trump are from \*\* before\*\* he won the presidency, right? What are they going to do - impeach him for something he did before he became president? Or do they just itch to scour over them and publish something? It’s to either find something to embarass him with, or get him to have a meltdown, ignore the subpoena, and provoke a larger crisis. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/84 "2018-11-08T03:56:46Z")
It’s about the next election, but also all the various criminal charges lining up against Donald and his assorted family & business associates. It’s not just pettiness. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/85 "2018-11-08T04:21:13Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > So giving them what could easily be portrayed as a McCarthy style “witch hunt” of a Trump nominee was perhaps the dumbest thing you could do. . So you’re saying that he should have just been allowed to get away with attempted rape, without even fighting? It wasn’t about the judge. It never was. If it were, then they would have just replaced him with another judge. It was about rape. We did not deliberately “give” them anything. We did what we had to do. Maybe it sucks having one side that actually cares about right and wrong, while the other side knew that there might be something but didn’t care, and even celebrated after he passed. I also note that the general population supported the investigation by double digit margins. Were they are wrong, too? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/86 "2018-11-08T05:03:30Z")
I’m changing my vote to “definitely a wave.” To paraphrase Harry Enten, the Dems flipped more house seats than any election since Watergate. How could that not be a wave? Plus all the governorships and state legislative seats they flipped — hundreds, as I understand it. The only downside is the Senate, and they may have held their losses to two. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/87 "2018-11-08T07:16:19Z")
What people are missing is that in addition to the control of the House, the Democrats have gained about 300 legislative seats at the state level, six or seven governorships, and now hold the majority of the Attorney General offices in the states. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/88 "2018-11-08T08:41:13Z")
Democrats flipped more seats in the House than in any election since immediately after Watergate. The Senate situation sucks but Democrats still won 62% of the seats that were up last night. It’s just that this class of Democratic senators was on kind of a sugar high after 2012, when McCaskill and Donnelly won races they had no business winning because the Republicans nominated walking disasters. As an Ohio Democrat, I think we might be the new Missouri, a state that used to be competitive, but no longer is. We have a surplus of the kinds of voters that Republicans are winning in greater numbers, but there aren’t enough people balancing that out (or more) like in Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/89 "2018-11-08T15:10:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > So you’re saying that he should have just been allowed to get away with attempted rape, without even fighting? > > It wasn’t about the judge. It never was. If it were, then they would have just replaced him with another judge. It was about rape. > > We did not deliberately “give” them anything. We did what we had to do. Maybe it sucks having one side that actually cares about right and wrong, while the other side knew that there might be something but didn’t care, and even celebrated after he passed. > > I also note that the general population supported the investigation by double digit margins. Were they are wrong, too? I’m not saying what should have been done from a moral point of view. From a political point of view it was a disaster. It’s a big part of the reason that Dems have a bare majority in the House and actually lost seats in the Senate. It’s such a thin line, that there’s a realistic chance that Republicans take back the House in 2020. I guess you can take consolation in a moral victory, but I’m not really sure if there was even a moral victory, since what really was the negative outcome for Kavanaugh? People that didn’t like him don’t like him even more and people that did like him now feel like he’s a martyr who wasn’t even martyred. The victim is now vilified and unless she gets a book deal is likely worse off than she was before. So, pragmatically, I’m not sure exactly what victory was gained anywhere. It was a Democratic Waterloo and the only Dem that managed to survive it was the one that was smart enough to switch sides. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/90 "2018-11-08T15:16:07Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I’m changing my vote to “definitely a wave.” To paraphrase Harry Enten, the Dems flipped more house seats than any election since Watergate. How could that not be a wave? Plus all the governorships and state legislative seats they flipped — hundreds, as I understand it. The only downside is the Senate, and they may have held their losses to two. Do you mean most seats flipped by the Democrats since Watergate, or most in a midterm by either party since Watergate? There were flips of 53 and 63 seats in midterms in 1994 and 2010. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/91 "2018-11-08T15:23:42Z")
Looking at all the local races here and surrounding Bexar County (San Antonio), I am quite, quite pleased with the Blue Wave and voted it a Big Wave. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/92 "2018-11-08T15:33:51Z")
The size of the Democratic gains in the House is now looking like it’s going to be in the high 30s, which would be the largest gain in many decades. I think that can be reasonably categorized as a “wave”. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/93 "2018-11-08T15:34:48Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > Bottom line is that Dems really overplayed their hand with Kavanaugh. According to exit polls, no they didn’t. From [Slate](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/11/trump-house-midterms-exit-poll-takeaways.html?via=homepage_recirc_engaged) > [@](#): > > In the network exit poll, voters said by a slight margin, 47 percent to 43 percent, that they opposed Kavanaugh’s appointment to the Supreme Court. Those who supported Kavanaugh voted overwhelmingly for Republicans, but those who opposed Kavanaugh voted even more overwhelmingly for Democrats. In the AP/Fox poll, Republicans won among the 25 percent of people who said the Kavanaugh debate wasn’t important to their vote. But among people who said Kavanaugh was somewhat important, Republicans lost narrowly. And among voters who said Kavanaugh was very important—nearly half the electorate—the GOP lost by 13 percentage points. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/94 "2018-11-08T16:30:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **Ashtura** pretty clearly said that the Democrats shouldn’t investigate the Trump administration at all. That’s nuts. If he meant impeachment, then why would he use the word investigate? > > If he doesn’t feel that way, then he can say so and I’ll gladly retract my criticism. I’m saying should hold off on the Meuller report. If Trump’s committed crimes, I’m pretty sure that will come out. If you guys want to “Benghazi” or “Email” Trump, fine, knock yourself out. However, if it’s just to make him look bad, and NOT impeach, well, good luck with that too. Trump flaws are baked in to the cake. Additive mud on Trump does not work on a mud monster. He’ll just deflect and we’ll be talking about something else in a week. If the end desired result IS impeachment, well, I think everyone but Maxine Waters knows that’s a dumb idea. Nancy Pelosi does and you can take that to the bank. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/95 "2018-11-08T16:36:49Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > According to exit polls, no they didn’t. > > From [Slate](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/11/trump-house-midterms-exit-poll-takeaways.html?via=homepage_recirc_engaged) Your problem is that you’re neglecting turnout. The question is, “If Kavanaugh had not happened, would you have turned out?” I would posit that Democratic voters were already going to turn out and likely voter polls seem to confirm that. Kavanaugh did not rally them to the polls. They were going regardless. What it did though was rally Republicans that maybe were a bit fatigued by the Trump parade and maybe not quite sure that it was imperative for there to be a Republican house or maybe those people who just had better things to do on Tuesday than vote to show up for the Republican side. You can see the polls of LVs that tremendously tightened up after Kavanaugh. Pre-Kavanaugh, it looked like it was going to be a blood bath and after Kavanaugh, Dems were left scrapping for swing states. ---
**Author:** ![pjacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pjacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjacks)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/96 "2018-11-08T17:03:38Z")
Ginsburg is in the hospital and will be dead soon. If you needed proof that what happened on Tuesday wasn’t remotely a blue wave, just think about who will replace her on the Supreme Court now that the Senate drifted further right and it is out of reach for Democrats until 2022, at best. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/97 "2018-11-08T17:08:05Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I’m saying should hold off on the Meuller report. If Trump’s committed crimes, I’m pretty sure that will come out. If you guys want to “Benghazi” or “Email” Trump, fine, knock yourself out. However, if it’s just to make him look bad, and NOT impeach, well, good luck with that too. Trump flaws are baked in to the cake. Additive mud on Trump does not work on a mud monster. He’ll just deflect and we’ll be talking about something else in a week. If the end desired result IS impeachment, well, I think everyone but Maxine Waters knows that’s a dumb idea. Nancy Pelosi does and you can take that to the bank. What does “hold off on the Mueller report” mean? All I’m saying is that the Congress should do its duty – including the duty of oversight of the Executive Branch. And investigating possible wrongdoing by members of the Executive Branch, including calling witnesses and reviewing documents, is well within this duty and an entirely reasonable thing to expect that Congress does. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/98 "2018-11-08T17:25:30Z")
I like to think that Trump and all involved are just expected and temporary setbacks in the historic advances in social progress. So I’m happy to see any indications to support any interpretation other than that Trump and his supporters are going to be in control long-term. So I’m pleased every time I hear of a black/brown/female/gay/non-christian elected to a major office. I’m also heartened in what I see as increased youth turnout, and evidence that the female support for Trump (which I found inexplicable) seems to have limits. Locally, I live in DuPage county IL, which has historically been quite red There has been progress in recent past, such as majorities for Hillary and Obama. But lower down on the ticket, things have been quite red. In many instances, the Dems didn’t even run candidates for offices such as judgeships and county board. But the longtime Repub chairman of the county board lost to a female dem. County clerk and sheriff also went Dem - for the first time I can ever recall. multiple Dems (tho not a clean sweep) were elected as county board commissioners. Also Dem forest preserve and judgeships. And most significantly, Roskam lost. I’ve lived in this county for 30 years, and these results are unprecedented. Definitely a favorable development in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/99 "2018-11-08T18:01:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Do you mean most seats flipped by the Democrats since Watergate, or most in a midterm by either party since Watergate? There were flips of 53 and 63 seats in midterms in 1994 and 2010. Yes, by Democrats. I should have been specific. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108/100 "2018-11-08T18:08:52Z")
> [@pjacks](#): > > Ginsburg is in the hospital and will be dead soon. To be clear - Ginsburg’s current injuries are not immediately life threatening. Maybe she will develop something life threatening. Or maybe not, because she’s a tough old bird and she’s currently under treatment by experienced doctors. She will not be dead by tea time. Hold off on ordering your mourning clothes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-blue-wave/824108.md?page=6)