# Your opinion of the word "Womyn" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 13, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510 "2006-08-13T02:22:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/121 "2006-08-15T17:59:25Z")
I’m female, and a dyke. I hate, just absolutely hate the whole “womyn” thing. In my observation, the women who use that term tend to be self-loathing, man-hating, narrowminded, tyrannical extremists. This is partly why I’ve turned down several opportunities to attend the MWMF, the other reason is their policy of not allowing MTF’s. That’s all I’m going to say because most of what I want to say belongs in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/122 "2006-08-15T18:18:00Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] So that sounds like it falls under **Johanna** ’s rubrick of “leftovers from the 1970s or '80s”. I’m not understanding your point. [/QUOTE] You do realize you could use the same “logic” to wave aside racism or antisemitism or sexism as irrelevant because they are leftovers from centuries ago ? They _are_, but that doesn’t make them nonexistent. She was apparently trying to claim that we were making fun of something feminists haven’t done since the 80’s; well, she’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/123 "2006-08-15T22:06:39Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana] Sure, if it provokes as much passion as this thread has. And people acuse feminists of being too serious–yeesh. Eve and Johanna, as we know, all groups, whether feminists or other, include idiots. I’m sorry that gender policing is still so rampant. [/QUOTE] Where has this article become empassioned? It was pretty light hearted for the most part. I am not sure I understand the term “gender policing”. What does it mean? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/124 "2006-08-15T22:26:48Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] I think the supporters of this spelling are tree-hugging, moon-howling, Birkenstock-wearing nutballs. [/QUOTE] I wear Birkenstocks, and moon-howling sounds like fun. But do I _have_ to hug trees and make up stupid spellings for ordinary words if I howl at the moon and wear Birkenstocks? :o (moon-howling smiley) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/125 "2006-08-15T22:40:38Z")
The term “man” representing the male of our species just doesn’t do justice to our extrordinarily large genitals and superior testosterone levels like the terms we have for the males of other species. In fact, a human male that is castrated is still called a man. Us human male breeders just don’t get any respect at all. I think it would be much more appropriate if we human males were called stallions,steeds,bucks, bulls, boars, stags, cocks or rams. Then we could call our womenfolk mares,does, cows, sows, hens or ewes. To summarize, I think female humans have done very well to be denoted as women. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/126 "2006-08-15T22:44:15Z")
[QUOTE=newcrasher] I am not sure I understand the term “gender policing”. What does it mean? [/QUOTE] I believe it refers to attempts to make sure that each gender stays in it’s “appropriate” role, and that people act according to their “appropriate” gender. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/127 "2006-08-15T23:27:11Z")
[QUOTE=The Chao Goes Mu] I’m female, and a dyke. I hate, just absolutely hate the whole “womyn” thing. This is partly why I’ve turned down several opportunities to attend the MWMF, the other reason is their policy of not allowing MTF’s. [/QUOTE] Well, this MtF says, “_thank_ you, dyke!” ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/128 "2006-08-16T01:06:55Z")
What **Eve** said. Dykes rock. 🙂 The Lesbian Avengers in particular have been great trans allies. > [@](#): > > the stars of Camp Trans [1999] were the Chicago Lesbian Avengers who, in support of an inclusive MWMF went toe-to-toe with angry lesbian-separatists intent on harassing the trans-contingent out of the festival grounds. The Avengers provided moral and physical support of the activists, escorting them through the grounds and engaging in group shouting matches with indignant separatists. > **[eminism.org - Michigan/Trans Archive](http://eminism.org/michigan/index.html)** > [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I think from this it seems clear that they would include transgendered people, doesn’t it? Yes, I think it was definitely phrased so as to be read that way. > [@](#): > > I think the policy of the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival shows a much deeper hatred of men than a silly thing like changing the spelling of “women.” They are going to hold it against you for being born male, even if you don’t consider yourself one, and have gone to great lengths to change it. I just don’t get it. The reason the MWMF gave for the policy is it was meant to be safe space for women including rape victims for whom the sight of a penis in the showers might be a “trigger.” That may be a legitimate concern. So, the trans activists countered, why exclude post-op trans women? The organizers didn’t have a good rebuttal to that, so they started de facto allowing post-op women in, on what sounds to me like a “don’t ask, don’t tell” basis. > [@](#): > > The festival’s 2001 handout states: “We ask all Festival-goers and staff to honor our commitment that no womon’s gender will be questioned on the land. […] Butch/gender-ambiguous womyn should be able to move about our community with confidence that their right to be here will not be questioned. […] We also have a commitment to run the Festival in a way that keeps faith with the womyn-born womyn policy, which may mean denying admission to individuals who self-declare as male-to-female transsexuals or female-to-male transsexuals now living as men (or asking them to leave if they enter).” > [@Shoshana](#): > > I’m sorry that gender policing is still so rampant. The form of gender discrimination represented by MWMF is dying out. (There may be ugly new forms of gender discrimination afoot, though…) I think the attitude is pretty widely recognized in today’s queer community as a dinosaur, to continue the paleontological metaphors. So let dead horses and obsolete dinosaurs, like sleeping dogs, lie. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/129 "2006-08-16T03:32:38Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] So is anyone gonna write an email to that college with the actual facts and suggest that their educational mission might be better served by not making shit up? [/QUOTE] Well, it’s Carleton U., also called the “Last Chance U.”, so I’m not sure it would have any effect… 😛 I’m kidding, of course. They used to be called that but not anymore; their reputation is much better than it used to be. Some of their programs are really highly regarded, architecture and design for example. This said, while the Womyn’s Centre is probably affiliated to the university, my guess would be that it operates independently, so the university might not be able to control the information they disseminate. They might not even be aware of it. This said, I’m sure they would like to know if some organization affiliated to them is propagating misinformation. I don’t intend to write this email, so if someone wants to do it, go ahead. Go U. of O.! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/130 "2006-08-16T03:37:15Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] I wear Birkenstocks, and moon-howling sounds like fun. But do I _have_ to hug trees and make up stupid spellings for ordinary words if I howl at the moon and wear Birkenstocks? :o (moon-howling smiley) [/QUOTE] Damn. You ruined the joke I was just going to post. To wit: How can you tell if a bookstore is owned by a feminist? There is no “Humor” section. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/131 "2006-08-16T03:44:53Z")
[QUOTE=Johanna] > [@](#): > > What **Eve** said. Dykes rock. 🙂 The Lesbian Avengers in particular have been great trans allies. > [eminism.org - Michigan/Trans Archive](http://eminism.org/michigan/index.html) > Yes, I think it was definitely phrased so as to be read that way. The reason the MWMF gave for the policy is it was meant to be safe space for women including rape victims for whom the sight of a penis in the showers might be a “trigger.” OK…so can’t they have a “penis-only” shower? This just seems like a copout to me. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/132 "2006-08-16T03:58:22Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] It’s pretty much fallen by the wayside for a decade now except perhaps among the looniest of toons. [/QUOTE] I resemble that remark. 😃 It always seemed so overtly political. A lot like Amerika, as was pointed out earlier. I smile when I read it, but give it no weight. Car **toon** iverse, male. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/133 "2006-08-16T08:56:02Z")
Womble, that’s my humble opinion. Womble: Are you with me? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/134 "2006-08-17T03:06:56Z")
[What happened at Camp Trans](http://p083.ezboard.com/fpseudochainsawfrm11.showMessage?topicID=20132.topic) > [@](#): > > Lorraine, an out trans woman, went into Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival without getting jumped… On multiple days… > … > Ten minutes after Lorraine enters the festival, I hear "Festie Virgin!!!’ being yelled loudly from inside the festival. Lorraine received the traditional welcome first time festie attendees get. To me, that is a very very good sign. > > 1. Lorraine comes back from MWMF that night after many hours at the festival. She gave news that she hung out at the festival, telling many people at the festival that she was a transsexual womon. Lorraine receives no violent response whatsoever. > > 2. Lorraine then decides to take the next day to spend at Camp Trans. A letter from Lisa Vogel signed was read aloud in which Lisa states in writing that womyn-born-womyn are the only people to attend the festival. However, there is no policy to be enforced thus trans women cannot be prohibited from attending. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/135 "2006-08-17T03:41:55Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] Womble, that’s my humble opinion. Womble: Are you with me? [/QUOTE] Hey, leave [The Wombles](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wombles) out of this. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/136 "2006-08-17T20:33:37Z")
[QUOTE=Johanna] I love to poke fun at myself with feminist humor, as long as it’s good. (Has anyone read _Titters_?) Q. How many feminists does it take to change a light bulb? [/QUOTE] Three. One to screw in the lightbulb, one to complain about the violation of the socket, and one to secretly wish she was the socket. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2006, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510/137 "2006-08-18T07:58:39Z")
The only person I’ve ever seen use “womyn” was Roberta Gregory (an alternative cartoonist; most of her work is available from Fantagraphics Books). I doubt she was making any big statement; she’s just an oridnary feminist who likes to have fun with words. She used “wimyn” at least once, too. I can see how it could get annoying, but at least I know where it’s coming from. I’ve never encounted any publication where it’s used with any regularity, so I really don’t see a big problem here. Personally, I think “womon” is the way to go. That way, if anyone’s concerned about you being strident, you can always say that you’re just using a Jamaican accent. 😃 Miller - The answer I heard was “That’s not funny!” Can’t really say which is better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-of-the-word-womyn/368510.md?page=6)