How often do you see, or even hear of, a blown tire these days? Most of the cars on the road in the USA have power steering and power brakes—if the engine dies, the automobile becomes difficult to handle and/or stop without regard to the driver’s age. I submit that “accidents” and “loss of control” are extremely difficult to deal with, no matter how young or old one might be.
I’ve said before and will say again: I support re-testing drivers of EVERY age at some interval of time. I will even agree that the time interval should be shorter as age increases. However, in spite of the fact that re-testing has been talked about for years, no one has yet come up with a workable plan for doing so. The costs involved will be very high and the logistics will be a nightmare. Even so, this is something that needs to be addressed and fairly soon at that.
While I support the re-testing initiative (for ALL), what seems to me most disturbing about this case the high likelihood that this fellow will get off completely scott-free, not even losing his license, let alone getting charged with manslaughter!!! I guess being elderly and saying “oops!” makes it all OK …
My mother is 73 and, although she’s a fine driver most of the time, every once in awhile she’ll space out and do something unsafe, like following the car in front of her right on through a stop sign, without stopping herself (as if it were a stop light that had just turned green).
However, her friend Barbara is BLIND. Straight up BUH-motherf*cking-LIND. Case in point: She once ran over a stop sign (I mean completely flattened it) without ever having seen it. And I’ve run across her on the road, too, cutting cars off at 15 mph, forcing them to slam on brakes, and then toodling down the middle of the street at the same speed, forcing everyone out of her way.
I wish I were kidding.
I report these incidents to my mother, who has tried to talk Barbara out of her keys (and serves as her chauffeur whenever possible), and who has even cussed out Barbara’s eye doctor, a family friend who keeps signing off on her vision tests, even though she fails them, so that she can keep her license.
So like Philosphr, I’m on the fence. I do lose patience with the number of bad elderly drivers out on the streets of my town (where there is a high concentration of seniors), but knowing Barbara, I can’t believe there’s malicious intent–just a desire to hang on to a little independence. I can only hope that most of them are convinced to stop driving by hitting their own garages and not by killing people.
I think retesting for seniors (65 and older) should be done at least yearly; every six months would be better. Not to be mean, but in the elderly, reflexes can deteriorate much more rapidly because of health issues, or simply just the aging process. There are too many people who refuse to give up their licenses voluntarily because of pride, or the thought that “I’ve been driving for 50 years. I’m just as good a driver as anyone”. My grandfather (80+) was the same way, but fortunately, he knew he wasn’t as sharp anymore, sold his car, and never renewed his license. My wife’s grandmother (also 80+), on the other hand, could barely see, hear, or even walk, yet continued to drive her full size Blazer all over the place. We were able to convince her doctor to strongly suggest that she give up her license, and threaten to take it. Finally, she did so, but reluctantly.
Absolute nonsense. If they can pass tests, there is no reason why they shouldn’t be driving. I could just as easily say that males under the age of 25 shouldn’t be allowed to drive, as they cause so many accidents.
We have an elderly neighbor, who we did not know was still driving, who had a blowout a couple of weeks ago and lost control and totalled her car. Blowouts DO happen. She’s still in the hospital, as far as I know. I feel awful for her.
I also think that as much as the AARP would yell about it, they should start testing people at 65 or 70 every couple of years to be sure that they are still safe drivers. No, I am not saying all older people are bad drivers. But when there are people like the man my mom once saw who took about five minutes to lean over and close the driver’s door on his car still driving, you have to wonder how well some people CAN drive anymore. It’s in everybody’s best interests, I think.
I am also all in favor of tight restrictions on young drivers as well, having known too many sixteen-year-olds to trust them behind the wheel. So I guess I’m a equal-opportunity age discriminator.
Let me add my vote for retesting at LEAST vision and hearing at intervals, especially after some reasonable age. It’s just silly to grant a lifetime license to someone based on a test given when his or her reflexes, vision and hearing are probably at their peak. (Skill and judgement are another matter, but I imagine these increase for a good number of years.)
Went through this last year with my late father, who refused to stop driving even after his doctor told him to. Unfortunately, for some reason the motor vehicle agency was not advised of this. Fortunately, he didn’t kill anybody before his final illness. But I could imagine him having done something like the Santa Monica guy.
I also join the chorus of those pointing out that in too many places there is little or no alternative to the automobile. Even when there is, though, some folks – and I think this is more likely to be true of men than of women – cannot deal with the lack of control and independence that a driver’s license provides.
In our case I volunteered to take Grandma and Grandpa to their doctor appointments and the like. I also did a large number of errands for them. I’m not saying give me your keys and sit home and suffer. I have also volunteered to take my FIL if he needs to go places but he insists he can drive just fine scream
In our area there are a couple of options for seniors who cannot drive. There is a ‘council on aging’ that will pick up seniors and take them where they need to be. The bus company also runs a door to door service for minimal fees to assist the elderly and handicapped with getting places.
There are also services that bring hot lunches to the elderly and that will bring groceries too. Heck Grandma even had a hairdresser that came to her house!
Yeah, no one should apologize for bitter contempt with this man, just because he is old.
We need to stop treating older poeple like children and demand that everyone have personal accountability. Old isn’t cute…it isn’t innocent… it just means that you actually should have more personal accountability.
We’ll never eliminate all risk in all drivers, but I am sick and tired of how we perceive old people. Old doesn’t have to mean incompetent, bumbling and clumsy. And no law or regulation should allow room for this.
Alot of people age like bumbling fools because of a sterotype of what old people whould be doing.
I hate over regulation of everything, but since driving is a bonus in life, I can see more testing. Just not sure testing would ever cut back on these things.
Testing (or more importantly, driver courses/education) issues might be fodder for GD.
And what REALLY REALLY irks me about these elderly driver cases is the the old man grouchy dirty looks they give everyone and THE TOTAL LACK OF REMORSE…from elderly drivers…you get bitterness and dirty grumbling looks from the murderers!!!
Dirty looks and NO REMORSE …this is what I get! How about SHOCK AND HORROR and some signs of not being able to live with what you just did!
I could be mistaken, but I remember that Santa Monica (as opposed to most LA suburban areas) actually has a good public transport system. But as you say, it’s a tangental issue.
No, two at one hospital were under the age of two. They mention another hospital that also admitted another critically injured infant.
"UCLA Medical Center received 13 patients: Six in critical condition – including two children under the age of 2; two patients who were still being evaluated; and five people who have been treated and released.
UCLA Santa Monica received 12 victims: one infant in critical condition; four adults in serious condition; and seven people with minor injuries. "
I think the worst thing here is that he’ll probably not get any jail time despite killing nine people and injurying 54 others. Some lawyer will play up the sympathy for his age, and he’ll probably walk after a statement of remorse over how tragic is all is.
“Weller left police headquarters by late afternoon. Walking unsteadily with a cane, he hugged and smiled at people who picked him up from the police station. He declined to comment to a reporter.”
You are to be commended for doing this. My sister and I had the problem that our father lived over an hour away. We did as much as we could, including researching all of the available bus and shuttle services available, meals on wheels, taxi services, and the like. He couldn’t be bothered. We pointed out that for what he overspent on a car, plus the justifiably skyrocketing cost of his insurance, he could have taken a cab anywhere he wanted to go. All to no avail. Some guys are just stubborn, and short of a court order cannot be dealt with.
My view on it is that it is fairly analagous to Drunk Driving, and should be legally treated the same way. Studies show that reaction time and judgement go down with more consumption of Alchohol. Studies also show that the same thing happens with advanced age. I think DWAI(Drving while ability impaired) is a good term and should be applied literally. If anybody is picked up while driving, or after causing an accident and their ability is impaired, past a reasonable standard, for whatever reason they get serious jail time. Some stupid bitch who runs over a stop sign(to use one of the earlier stories in this thread) should get at least a year of jail time. And if your a good driver at age and your ability isn’t impaired then you can drive(Hell if you are a good driver drunk then I don’t think you should get arrested for it, although that is a much harder thing to test and prove)
That idiot should be sued within an inch of his life, and spend the rest of his life in prison at the least.
Philster - I can see you are pretty pissed. The thing that gets me about this whole thing. Is that even if he was scared or thought he was hitting the brake, he could still plainly see he was mowing through a crowd of people. Who were BTW bouncing off and under his car. IIRC his car is a buick or olds…The peddles are large, the brake is Huge. This is very very disconcerning…
I don’t see him spending a single night in Jail. And I see a royal drilling by the defense as to his age, and possible senility. I can’t wait to read the transcripts if they are available. I want to know what this elderly guy is actually going to say in a public announcement.
This I just can’t agree with. He could be an honest, law-abiding citizen who freaked out in a terrible situation. He is certainly not a criminal. If it turns out he was yelling obscenities like: Fck you Ni**er Jew Mother Fckers…then yes he should fry. But I bet he has no criminal record and is a totally clean… But they will try to get him anyway, I’m sure.
I’d love to hear from some of the SDMB lawyers…see what they say?
Why the hell are people saying you can’t test for reflexes? Didn’t anyone take a good driving course?
I fully support retesting for everyone every 5 or so years, after a certain age (say, 45-50). This guy wasn’t suffering from sight problems, he mixed up the damn pedals for 2 or 3 blocks!
I’d like to see a true reflex test added to our driving test evaluation. In ontario all you need to do is go around the block a few times and park. During my private driving test, I had to avoid markers at speed and make emergency lane change and advoidance manouvers. I had to emergency brake, or go left or right of the markers without knowing which way before my instructor told me (if you freeze, you fail).
I’d basically like to see car drivers have to pass the equivilant of my motorcycle course. That was truely tough to pass!
Slightly off topic, but the first thing I thought when I read about this in the newspaper this morning was, “What on earth could the possibly do to this guy so that justice is served?”
I mean, he’s 83 years old. Most likely (assuming it was “just an accident”), he will get his licensed suspended. Big deal.
Let’s just assume it wasn’t just an accident, however. Let’s say he knew that his reflexes were shot or that there was some other reason he shouldn’t be driving, and that the whole thing was preventable. Or, heaven forbid, let’s say he was annoyed that the market was blocking his path and he did it on purpose. What then? They take his license away and stick him in jail to rot for the remaining few years of his life? Do you really think that would make up for all the lives he ruined? Will the families of the victims feel better as a result?
I don’t know. I guess I feel a double sense of outrage when I hear about an old person committing a crime – it’s almost as if they are saying to society, “Go ahead and punish me – What do I care? I wasn’t planning on living much longer anyway.”
