# Your opinion re: USAF Academy Chapel **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 29, 2007, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954 "2007-06-29T18:34:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Big\_Norse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/big_norse/32/9954_2.png) [@Big\_Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Norse)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/21 "2007-06-29T21:31:09Z")
[QUOTE=Jahdra] My first impression was “Ooh, flight!” Soaring. I like it. [/QUOTE] I agree with this, I love it. It fits at the Academy but as others have said, it doesn’t say “church.” But I also love the [Inland Steel Building\*](http://www.aviewoncities.com/building/inlandsteelbuilding.htm) which was an earlier building done by the same designer as the chapel, Walter Netsch. \*Few pictures do it justice and I didn’t love it until I saw it in person. ---
**Author:** ![ArmenE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ArmenE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArmenE)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/22 "2007-06-29T22:05:39Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Is it the library that has a statue enscribed (in big permament letters) “BRING ME MEN?” They should have thought a little harder on that one. [/QUOTE] I’m guessing that you meant to put the question mark outside the quotation marks. heh. Bring me men? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/23 "2007-06-29T22:22:05Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] To me it doesn’t say “come worship”, it says “look at me”. [/QUOTE] What’s odd about that? Hasn’t that ever been the case with public monuments? Just look at the various British and European cathedrals, the Roman buildings, the Acropolis, and so on back to the Egyptian pyramids and before. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/24 "2007-06-29T22:49:42Z")
I had to think about it. There are buildings that you love at first glance. This was not one of those. I had to think “oh, ok, airplane wings. Yeah, I can see what someone was going for. That works for the USAF, I guess.” But I don’t love it. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/25 "2007-06-29T23:00:28Z")
To me it looks like a giant heat sink. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/26 "2007-06-29T23:55:05Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] What’s odd about that? Hasn’t that ever been the case with public monuments? Just look at the various British and European cathedrals, the Roman buildings, the Acropolis, and so on back to the Egyptian pyramids and before. [/QUOTE] Given 1. such an extensive set of historic architectural precedents (most of which place puny Man in the shadow of God’s magnificent presence), and, 2. the realization that upon its completion, this monolith too, might yet again, be interpreted as demanding that one kowtow to its presence, and 3. especially given that it was creaated during an era of great social change and innovation (during which time iconoclasts and their output was more likely to be accepted), it is all the more reason to be disappointed that the architect went along with the cultural/historic _status quo_. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/27 "2007-06-30T01:44:26Z")
It’s horrid. It’s _slightly_ better in person, because it’s the only thing at the Academy that _doesn’t_ look like you can land a plane on it. Nearly every other building is an enormous flat-topped rectangle glass and steel rectangle. There’s not a building on that campus which feels remotely welcoming. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/28 "2007-06-30T03:12:35Z")
Thanks so much for all your comments. I find the fact that there’s a fairly clear split in opinion rather reassuring. I’d have been quite concerned if there had been a unanimous or near-unanimous sentiment one way or the other. To this point (and I do hope more people will tell what they think), there have been 6 folks who seem to hold a generally favourable impression of it, and 9 people who are clearly not enamoured of it. As for me, I really meant it when I said that I have mixed feelings. I _do_ appreciate its architecture (at least as much as an architectural ignoramus like myself can) and think it may well be almost perfectly suited for its role and place. If I were a Christian pilot-to-be, or Christian teacher of pilots-to-be, I imagine that I’d be plenty moved just looking at, and feel a special joy upon entering it. BUT, as someone who’s a foreigner in many more ways than one to the USAFA and its Christian denizens, I see it as a rather cold and almost brutal monument. At the risk of Godwinizing my own thread, it looks to my eye as almost fascist in its conception and design, or at least what I imagine a fascist chapel might look like. I could go out on a limb and say that might be the look of the Luftwaffe chapel had you-know-who won (and if organized religion was still tolerated), but I won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/29 "2007-06-30T03:37:38Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] I think it’s gorgeous. I like the design, I like the color, I like the feel of it. Beautiful building, and fitting for its location. [/QUOTE] Just what I would’ve written. I’m usually not a big fan of modern architecture, but this is the right design for the right place at the right time. Two thumbs up. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/30 "2007-06-30T03:37:50Z")
We were out there last year. Had a very nice dinner with a couple of cadets with raptors on their arms, way cool we got to pet them (the raptors not the cadets. 😉 ) Mrsin noted that the chapel looked like a “taco” if you discounted the steps. Damned if he wasn’t right. [Taco](http://www.usafa.af.mil/superintendent/hc/chapelpics/pages/DSC_2343.htm) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/31 "2007-06-30T03:43:43Z")
It looks like a hangar. At the Silent Hill airport… ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/32 "2007-06-30T13:17:26Z")
For some reason, it reminds me a little of the [Thorncrown Chapel](http://www.thorncrown.com/) in Eureka Springs, Arkansas. They don’t look alike and the setting’s different, but something about the verticalness (?) of it seems similar. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/33 "2007-06-30T13:22:45Z")
I can’t believe no one has mentioned that it looks exactly like a Cylon Resurrection Ship. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/34 "2007-06-30T15:24:29Z")
As architecture, I love it. It doesn’t look cold or unwelcoming to me, at least from the front. On the contrary, it draws me towards it. The entrance has a vaginal look to me, which isn’t unusual for cathedrals, though usually less pronounced. It doesn’t seem humbling to me, either. Sure, to me or you it is, but not to a pilot. It says very clearly to me that nothing is closer to God than a pilot. I’m not sure that’s the message AF cadets need to learn, exactly. So not so great as a chapel. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/35 "2007-06-30T17:04:24Z")
[QUOTE=KarlGauss] Given 1. such an extensive set of historic architectural precedents (most of which place puny Man in the shadow of God’s magnificent presence), and, 2. the realization that upon its completion, this monolith too, might yet again, be interpreted as demanding that one kowtow to its presence, and 3. especially given that it was creaated during an era of great social change and innovation (during which time iconoclasts and their output was more likely to be accepted), it is all the more reason to be disappointed that the architect went along with the cultural/historic _status quo_. [/QUOTE] Well, it IS the chapel at a _military_ academy, built in the late 50s-early 60s. It would be astounding if they had gone for a design that did NOT seek to impart a sense of majesty as understood by people of the early nuke/space age. \*We fly supersonic jets and launch missiles. Our place of worship evokes upward flight, speed, power and progress. Meanwhile our places of everyday residence and study evoke regimentation and discipline. \* I can imagine that. So I “dig” the USAFA Cadet Chapel for being architecture of its time, not a simulation of architecture of some other time. And yes, the Academy in general has something of what we came to think of as a _“1950s institutional”_ look… but… IT IS institutional buildings. _Military_ institutional buildings. From the 1950s. The AFA campus was essentially sprang full grown over a few years in the virtual middle of nowhere, with no immediate built-environment referents. The campuses in Annapolis, West Point and New London are the way they are because they evolved, as it were, “organically”, over a couple of centuries (and not all the time as academies, New London only came to host the CGA in 1915, after over a century as a post for other services). USNA in particular being at the waterfront in Annapolis had a \*very \* close-by urban landscape for architectural feedback. The USAF had the chance to go _tabula rasa_ and I’m not surprised they went “modernist”; in a way it’s more honest than to just copy “how an academy is supposed to look” from the senior services. From [this site on the development of the Academy](http://www.nps.gov/nr/twhp/wwwlps/lessons/114airforce/114facts3.htm), statements of the visions for the design: > [@](#): > > " We want the Academy to be a living embodiment of the modernity of flying and to represent in its architectural concepts the national character of the Academy…. We want our structures to be as efficient and as flexible in their design as the most modern projected aircraft. " (Air Force Secretary Talbott) > [@](#): > > The Academy’s buildings would be made of metal just like the jet airplanes and missiles that were hallmarks of the Air Force itself. The New York Herald Tribune praised the design saying, “Just as West Point with its medieval fortress-like appearance symbolizes the traditions of land warfare, so does the sharp-lined and soaring Air Force Academy represent the newest and swiftest military science.” Sure, virtually nothing made in the spirit of the architectural schools of the time would look particularly pleasing to 2007 eyes, and that’s not entirely fair to that architecture. To 2007 eyes, the question would be why not have it be more in-tune with the prairie/rockies environment… well, that was _not_ such a major a consideration in the 1950s/early 60s almost anywhere anyway; and the buildings are not supposed to be about the mountains and prairie, but about the Air Force. At best you would have gone for Saarinen/Niemeyer “futurism” and how do you justify that to the budget committee. So modernism it was. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/36 "2007-06-30T17:25:01Z")
[QUOTE=KarlGauss] I find the fact that there’s a fairly clear split in opinion rather reassuring. [/QUOTE] Well, it’s a bold choice. Boldness tends to polarize. Here in Seattle, the best recent example is the new-ish [downtown library](http://www.spl.org/images/slideshow/5_5_05/sw1a-pp6574.jpg). I love it, and most of the people in my immediate circle feel the same. But there is also, in the city, a fair-sized contingent that looks at the library, wrinkles their noses, and mutters, “…the hell?” Boldness does sometimes backfire, of course. Witness another Seattle edifice, AKA “[the monstrosity](http://images.google.com/images?um=1&tab=wi&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-34%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=experience%20music%20project).” But for my money, I would much, much rather see architecture that takes a stand, makes a choice, and demands that one have an opinion about it, for positive or negative, than the alternative, which is generic, undistinguished styling that elicits no questions, provokes no reaction, and off of which your uncaught eye slides as if greased. ([Local example](http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=idxtower-seattle-wa-usa).) That’s the thing about taste: A strong, specific vision will not appeal to everyone, and may alienate some viewers; but then the vision that is concerned primarily with displeasing as few as possible will of necessity please a comparable number. Now, I don’t find the USAF Academy Chapel personally appealing. I’m not a fan of symmetrical repetition in design; it screams “conform” and “get in line” to me, a message to which I have an allergic reaction. That said, given the above, I can respect the boldness and specificity of its approach, and I think the world is a richer place for having such a building in it, even if I don’t like it overmuch. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/37 "2007-06-30T17:52:19Z")
[QUOTE=JRDelirious] . . . (astute and insightful remarks omitted) . . . [/QUOTE] Thank you for such an erudite contribution - much obliged. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/38 "2007-06-30T17:55:43Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] another Seattle edifice, AKA “[the monstrosity](http://images.google.com/images?um=1&tab=wi&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-34%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=experience%20music%20project).” [/QUOTE] “Monstosity”, a good moniker. To me it looks like something that either melted or which was the product of an abortion. So let’s say a ‘melted abortion’ :eek: ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/39 "2007-06-30T18:29:24Z")
It’s certainly a striking looking building. I’ll admit I don’t think of aircraft when I see it, I felt it evoked images of aircraft hangars, which is something slightly different. [QUOTE=KarlGauss] On the other hand, sometimes I see it as being terribly cold and unforgiving. Maybe even sterile. And, if a building, especially a chapel of all things, can convey an aura of elitism, this one does. This a chapel that says, ‘you must _earn_ your way into me’. Indeed, in my estimation, this is not a building that welcomes. It is a building that dwarfs you, reminding you of the near irrelevance of your existence save for your desire to reach for the heavens. [/QUOTE] But so many cathedrals, especially medieval ones, were intended to dwarf those coming into them. The [Nave of Notre Dame](http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~sedwards/photos/paris2002/Images/P3011042%20Notre%20Dame%20Int.jpg), for example, nearly quashes the supplicant entering through the main doors with the simple physical comparisons. I’m surprised to see a building so modern evoking that sort of response from you, but if there’s any culture where that would be considered a benefit from a chapel/cathedral, it would be the military, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954/40 "2007-06-30T19:04:18Z")
My immediate reaction was “That’s pretty sweet”, since I generally like artistic/unusual architecture, but I can definitely understand where your ambivalence comes from. It looks sort of imperialistic and not very homey at all. I wouldn’t be very attracted to it (for that reason, plus it’s a church). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinion-re-usaf-academy-chapel/409954.md?page=3)