# Your opinions on magnet schools? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 30, 2018, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703 "2018-10-30T08:30:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/81 "2018-11-06T04:04:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Half the schools in Finland could be IB schools and it still wouldn’t affect my argument - I like elements of the Finnish system that are independent of the IB schools and internal to the Finnish comprehensive system. The only part of what I like about Finnish schooling that IB schools affect is that I like that private schooling is discouraged. And that still stands. At no point has my argument been “Finland doesn’t have any magnet schools” (which is all that the existence of IB schools refutes), it’s been “I prefer a model like the Finnish comprehensives” That’s not what you wrote: > [@MrDibble](#): > > Finland, for instance, is the model I wish we all would follow. Nobody cares what you think about the non-magnet schools because the entire point of this thread is what you think about magnet schools, and you want to use a country with magnet schools as a model. A system with not just IB secondary schools but with dozens of schools requiring aptitude tests for admissions starting in 7th grade. Never mind that it’s rather odd to pick a country with declining performance as a model over other countries or US states with similar or better performance that is also improving or holding steady. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/82 "2018-11-06T04:29:24Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > That’s not what you wrote: :rolleyes: …and I’ve elaborated on that rather basic statement, at length. So if that’s all you’re still clinging to, I’d say you need to catch up. I brought up Finland in response to a statement about education that I considered a hasty generalization. It was completely pertinent (and \*still \*true - the Finnish comprehensive system is the _exact opposite_ of education that “strongly tends to magnify the differences between people, and thus to produce very unequal outcomes”.) And I already dealt with your “Finland education is deteriorating” point, but again: it may have slipped a couple points (in a test the Finns themselves don’t really care about) but it’s still \*miles \*better than the USA, and probably is an artifact of other countries adjusting just to do well _on that particular standardised test_. Which is not an outcome I find particularly good, at all, for those counties’ kids especially. And no, Finland does not have magnet schools _as part of the comprehensive system_. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/83 "2018-11-06T08:41:44Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The problem with this thinking is that it assumes and mandates that kids who might benefit from more challenging teaching and curricula are just shit out of luck, because they’re not poor, or don’t have incompetent parents. > > Which isn’t fair- the idea that “they’re smart, they’ll manage” is shitty to an extreme. And, I suspect it’s why magnet schools exist- so that those kids and the kids with motivated parents can self-select into environments where they can excel and get the resources they need to make the most of their educations. They shouldn’t be thrown to the wolves because they’re smart, and their parents shouldn’t be expected to shoulder the load for the unmotivated/incompetent parents because they want better for their kids. > > In other words, the school system has just as much obligation to challenge and stretch that gifted kid academically as it does to bring that poor kid up to level, and feed him and all that other stuff. Which bit of > [@Filbert](#): > > … more focus on getting good teachers, tracking individual kids better to get them more focused help, more support from local authorities and faster intervention in ‘problem’ schools. The kids haven’t changed, the parents haven’t changed, but the schools have and the results have. implies throwing _any_ kid to the wolves? On a personal level, I went to a highly selective school and I don’t think they’re a great idea. Getting a better standard of education should not depend on parental effort. Other kids just as smart as me wound up not getting in to my school, because their parents thought it was a bit far away/it’s not worth the bother/it’s a bit snobby and never entered them for it. They largely wound up at a closer crap school that didn’t offer the higher level courses, because my school took the ‘bright’ kids, so they wouldn’t have enough kids who would benefit. Under the guise of selecting for the brightest kids, it largely just selected for the most involved parents. Half my classmates had had private education directly aimed at passing the exam to get in. These were the the kids who were in least need of ‘a leg up’; if they hadn’t got in there, they would have simply gone to private schools, whereas the bright kids whose parents didn’t want to bother wound up getting a worse education. Your magnet schools aren’t quite the same, they’re more specialised, I know, but without making sure that a good education is available to everyone, not just those with parents prepared to put the effort in, they’re not really a solution. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/84 "2018-11-06T12:16:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And I already dealt with your “Finland education is deteriorating” point, but again: it may have slipped a couple points (in a test the Finns themselves don’t really care about) but it’s still \*miles \*better than the USA, and probably is an artifact of other countries adjusting just to do well _on that particular standardised test_. Which is not an outcome I find particularly good, at all, for those counties’ kids especially. Do you have _any_ proof that Canada, Singapore, and Massachusetts are adjusting “just to do well” on PISA? No, you don’t, because that doesn’t fit your unscientific narrative. So we still have no explanation for why we should model ourselves after Finland _instead of another system._ > [@MrDibble](#): > > And no, Finland does not have magnet schools _as part of the comprehensive system_. They call them “weighted” – they’re part of the comprehensive system and you have to take an aptitude test and apply. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/85 "2018-11-06T12:27:38Z")
Also, “generic magnets that only concern themselves with grades” is not an appropriate description of the school in the OP. Students who are in classes or programs that are too hard for them are going to have low grades. Grades are just one indicator we have that a student is inappropriately placed. It goes both ways; the straight-A student might benefit from moving into a more advanced or accelerated class or program. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/86 "2018-11-06T13:42:36Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Do you have _any_ proof that Canada, Singapore, and Massachusetts are adjusting “just to do well” on PISA? Nope, just going by what Pasi Sahlberg has said, in that [cite](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/finlands-schools-were-once-the-envy-of-the-world-now-theyre-slipping/2016/12/08/dcfd0f56-bd60-11e6-91ee-1adddfe36cbe_story.html?utm_term=.0d8f63e2dbbe) you, yourself, provided earlier.: > [@](#): > > I think that the fact that most OECD countries have shaped their national education policies, i.e. curriculum, instruction time, and testing, to be aligned with PISA hoping that this would increase their PISA scores has affected Finland’s position internationally. Education policies in Finland are not targeted to do well in PISA at all. > [@](#): > > No, you don’t, because that doesn’t fit your unscientific narrative. You keep using the word “unscientific” like it wins any arguments with me… > [@](#): > > So we still have no explanation for why we should model ourselves after Finland _instead of another system._ I didn’t say you _should_ do anything. I said which system\* I \*preferred, and why. PISA test scores were not my reasoning. I in fact said I preferred the Finnish system over higher-scoring ones. > [@](#): > > They call them “weighted” – they’re part of the comprehensive system and you have to take an aptitude test and apply. If you have to take a test, then by definition they’re not comprehensive. They may be _public_ (not all are, some are completely private), but that’s not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/87 "2018-11-06T13:50:44Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Also, “generic magnets that only concern themselves with grades” is not an appropriate description of the school in the OP. If you can be forced to leave your school because your GPA drops, and the school doesn’t specialise as to subjects, like art or tech schools, then yes, it is an appropriate description. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/88 "2018-11-06T15:09:06Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > If you can be forced to leave your school because your GPA drops, and the school doesn’t specialise as to subjects, like art or tech schools, then yes, it is an appropriate description. I’m still not convinced we’re not tilting at windmills here. With the exception of one lone example in the Kansas City area, everything I’ve looked up are some kind of special program or other- the closest that I come to an unspecialized magnet school are either charters, which are typically a response to parental and administrative apathy in low income areas, and specific gifted & talented or IB-type programs, both of which are far from unspecialized. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/89 "2018-11-06T15:35:23Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’m still not convinced we’re not tilting at windmills here. With the exception of one lone example in the Kansas City area, everything I’ve looked up are some kind of special program or other- the closest that I come to an unspecialized magnet school are either charters, which are typically a response to parental and administrative apathy in low income areas, and specific gifted & talented or IB-type programs, both of which are far from unspecialized. Fair enough - like I said, it’s not specialised schools I object to (although the IB PYP/MYP curricula _are_ what I would consider unspecialised). Charters are essentially private schools with public funding, aren’t they? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/90 "2018-11-06T22:56:38Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Charters are essentially private schools with public funding, aren’t they? Sort of; from what I understand, they’re kind of a hybrid between the two- public funding and some degree of logistical support like acquiring school facilities, but the admissions and actual administration/management is much more like that of a private school. In particular, they seem to be popular in very low income areas, and seem to be a method to achieve that self-selection that I was talking about earlier- for kids who maybe aren’t interested/qualified for magnet schools’ specialized programs, but who want better academic achievement and whose parents are on board and engaged. IANA educator or even anything other than a casual observer of the educational system, but I can’t recall ever having heard about a suburban charter school. (on googling, it looks like they exist, but on the whole aren’t terribly successful) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/91 "2018-11-06T23:58:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Fair enough - like I said, it’s not specialised schools I object to (although the IB PYP/MYP curricula _are_ what I would consider unspecialised). Even specialized schools can be excellent general schools also. A friend of mine went to the famous High School of Music and Art in NY, and from there straight to MIT - in engineering. So they did a pretty good job in science education too. My high school was not a magnet school, but it was big enough to have highly advanced classes. Given that I was a nerd before it became popular, I had an excellent high school experience. People in my classes were just like me. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/92 "2018-11-07T16:41:50Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > People in my classes were just like me. That’s actually a big argument in magnet schools’ favor- they give the rare, highly-committed student a chance to thrive among others of their own kind. [https://www.houstonchronicle.com/life/article/Notable-alumni-credit-HSPVA-with-nurturing-their-7872002.php](https://www.houstonchronicle.com/life/article/Notable-alumni-credit-HSPVA-with-nurturing-their-7872002.php) This is true both from the perspective of nurturing the individuals from a more counseling-type standpoint, but also from the perspective of better educating them. If a music teacher is having to teach average kids the difference between the bass and treble clefs, and there’s one kid in there who can already sight-read music excellently, that kid is better off in a class full of other kids who can also sight-read well, rather than have to wait around on everyone else to just grasp the idea of there being various clefs that music is written with. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/93 "2018-11-07T17:27:29Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Sort of; from what I understand, they’re kind of a hybrid between the two- public funding and some degree of logistical support like acquiring school facilities, but the admissions and actual administration/management is much more like that of a private school. > > In particular, they seem to be popular in very low income areas, and seem to be a method to achieve that self-selection that I was talking about earlier- for kids who maybe aren’t interested/qualified for magnet schools’ specialized programs, but who want better academic achievement and whose parents are on board and engaged. > > IANA educator or even anything other than a casual observer of the educational system, but I can’t recall ever having heard about a suburban charter school. (on googling, it looks like they exist, but on the whole aren’t terribly successful) In North Carolina [suburban charter schools are definitely a thing, and they’re increasing racial segregation](https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article205190044.html). In my district, where there’s a clear socioeconomic/racial divide (there’s a very small black middle class, and a very large black impoverished community), our charter schools are, with one exception, overwhelmingly white. They achieve this legally by declining to offer services that low-income families need, such as transportation and free/reduced lunch. (Oh, they claim to offer transportation, via voluntary carpool sign-up Google forms, but it’s the rare poor black family who’s going to sign up for some middle-class white family to drive their kid to and from a school every day). People who want a whites-only school but don’t want to pay for a private segregationist school can now go to a charter school in my state. I’m not a fan. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/94 "2018-11-07T18:24:03Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s actually a big argument in magnet schools’ favor- they give the rare, highly-committed student a chance to thrive among others of their own kind. > > [https://www.houstonchronicle.com/life/article/Notable-alumni-credit-HSPVA-with-nurturing-their-7872002.php](https://www.houstonchronicle.com/life/article/Notable-alumni-credit-HSPVA-with-nurturing-their-7872002.php) > > This is true both from the perspective of nurturing the individuals from a more counseling-type standpoint, but also from the perspective of better educating them. > > If a music teacher is having to teach average kids the difference between the bass and treble clefs, and there’s one kid in there who can already sight-read music excellently, that kid is better off in a class full of other kids who can also sight-read well, rather than have to wait around on everyone else to just grasp the idea of there being various clefs that music is written with. In my district they are committed to differentiated instruction, where even in a single classroom the teacher is supposed to treat kids differently. The example they gave is to not make the kid who got all the words right on the first spelling test do all the busy work of using the words in sentences, but to give her enriched work. But that is easier to do if the gap in the classroom is not that great. It may be elitist, but it worked for me. And they are very much against the idea of having the high achieving kids teach the lower achieving ones. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/95 "2018-11-07T19:20:01Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > But that is easier to do if the gap in the classroom is not that great. And therein lies the rub. What are you supposed to do as parents, if your kid has been appropriately prepared for say… kindergarten, but the other children in the class know very little of the appropriate pre-kindergarten knowledge like say, colors, shapes, numbers, basic counting, etc…? And where they don’t know how to behave in a classroom setting at all yet? Your kid is going to be bored out of their skull- the teacher can only spend so much time on one kid out of 25 or so. Or the flip side; there’s a child my son went to school with who wasn’t terribly prepared for kindergarten, and on top of it, has some kind of crackhead mother or something- she apparently just vanishes at random from time to time for extended periods, and the child has to stay with grandparents. I’m sure that does the child no favors. But at the same time, I have my child to look out for, first and foremost. It’s tragic that this kid has such troubles, but it’s my job to make sure the school and district look out for my kid too, and make sure he’s appropriately challenged. That’s why I think magnets are good overall- they cater to kids/parents like mine without necessarily taking away from the other children. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/96 "2018-11-08T03:15:27Z")
> [@bump](#): > > And therein lies the rub. What are you supposed to do as parents, if your kid has been appropriately prepared for say… kindergarten, but the other children in the class know very little of the appropriate pre-kindergarten knowledge like say, colors, shapes, numbers, basic counting, etc…? And where they don’t know how to behave in a classroom setting at all yet? Your kid is going to be bored out of their skull- the teacher can only spend so much time on one kid out of 25 or so. Kids that young develop at different rates, which is why my district doesn’t do GATE testing until 2nd grade (maybe third.) My district in NJ had a pre-first program where kids who were too young or not quite ready for first grade and reading got another year. And the teacher/student ratio in kindergarten is much higher than other grades, so differentiation is easier. I’m all for pre-K education, but at that age kids catch up. If they get differentiated instruction. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/97 "2018-11-08T13:05:38Z")
> [@bump](#): > > And therein lies the rub. What are you supposed to do as parents, if your kid has been appropriately prepared for say… kindergarten, but the other children in the class know very little of the appropriate pre-kindergarten knowledge like say, colors, shapes, numbers, basic counting, etc…? And where they don’t know how to behave in a classroom setting at all yet? Your kid is going to be bored out of their skull- the teacher can only spend so much time on one kid out of 25 or so. > > Or the flip side; there’s a child my son went to school with who wasn’t terribly prepared for kindergarten, and on top of it, has some kind of crackhead mother or something- she apparently just vanishes at random from time to time for extended periods, and the child has to stay with grandparents. I’m sure that does the child no favors. > > But at the same time, I have my child to look out for, first and foremost. It’s tragic that this kid has such troubles, but it’s my job to make sure the school and district look out for my kid too, and make sure he’s appropriately challenged. > > That’s why I think magnets are good overall- they cater to kids/parents like mine without necessarily taking away from the other children. I’ve had two kids go through kindergarten being highly prepared for it, having attended awesome preschools (one was at the school I teach at). Both of them had classmates whose first day of kindergarten was their first day in a structured environment, classmates who didn’t know their colors or how to sit on the carpet or how to take turns. Kindergarten was _amazing_ for both my daughters. My youngest one comes home telling me things like, “Jamayah flips her lid a lot, but today I said, ‘Jenny, you’re a good friend, but please don’t wig out if we’re not on the same team.’ But she wigged out anyway. I gave her a hug, and that made her feel better.” The fact that some of her classmates come from trauma does not AT ALL make her education worse. On the contrary, it teaches her skills that her peers at rich private schools aren’t learning. If I want a world with justice, sending my kids to a segregated school in which they’re insulated from the negative effects of poverty and white supremacy (yeah, I’m going there–it’s a real problem in my area), I have to walk the walk. The narrative that I’m choosing between better kids and a better world is false and pernicious. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/98 "2018-11-08T17:40:09Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If I want a world with justice, sending my kids to a segregated school in which they’re insulated from the negative effects of poverty and white supremacy (yeah, I’m going there–it’s a real problem in my area), I have to walk the walk. The narrative that I’m choosing between better kids and a better world is false and pernicious. FWIW, we sent our son to a magnet school that’s something like 70% minority, 40% black, and about 50% on free lunch. Mostly because we didn’t much like the nearby elementary school in our same district that is something like 75% white and upper-middle-class. Mostly because it’s just obnoxious- a combination of elitist, snooty, privileged and condescending, even among the white people. But it is frustrating to see my son’s teacher struggling with the demands of having to deal with the children of crackheads AND have to deal with well off gifted and talented children as well. I suspect that having them all in the same classroom impacts everyone’s education negatively to some extent. I keep coming back to the problem of the sorry parents- it seems to me that all this stuff (magnets included) is a response to their shitty parenting, and that it is a massive drain on the educational system as a whole- what amazing things could we do if they weren’t having to worry as much about counseling or free lunches, or any of that kind of thing? But it’s not the school system’s problem or responsibility to straighten out parental incompetence either. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/99 "2018-11-08T20:23:30Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > [Denmark’s roleplaying school](https://osterskov.dk/in-english/) I was really curious about this so clicked the link and read thru quite a bit of their website and -fuck me- this would have been a _fantastic_ school for me when I was that age. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703/100 "2018-11-08T20:54:44Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’m still not convinced we’re not tilting at windmills here. With the exception of one lone example in the Kansas City area, everything I’ve looked up are some kind of special program or other- the closest that I come to an unspecialized magnet school are either charters, which are typically a response to parental and administrative apathy in low income areas, and specific gifted & talented or IB-type programs, both of which are far from unspecialized. Well I started this all out and mentioned the Kansas city school and even I will admit this type of “magnet” is unusual. The only “magnet” of Sumner is its college readiness curriculum and set of rules. AND IT WORKS! Almost all their students go on to college and do very well! Whereas other high schools send kids off to college but since they lack the skills, tend to drop out. Now again, the issue is it skims off the best and brightest from the other high schools leaving all the low achievers and problem students. And damn, do they have big issues! Rampant truancy, fighting, pot smoking, refusing to do work, gangs, etc… Oh they try that on occasion at Sumner also but if caught, they are kicked out while at a regular high school they have to keep them. The thing is, if Sumner did not exist, most likely those parents of the best kids would have pulled their kids out of Kansas City Ks schools and put them either in private schools or moved to the suburbs (also some of them sneak their kids into other districts by lieing about addresses and such). This is what happened over on the Missouri side. So I dont have an easy answer. You cant just say throw more money into the system and fix all schools because that doesnt work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-magnet-schools/823703.md?page=6)