# Your Opinions on Shakespearean Plays **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227 "2003-02-02T03:11:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/21 "2003-02-02T23:45:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Giselle \* > Okay, I object. > > In regards to the language, most of it is extremely modern. Sure, some people don’t get all of his metaphorical/biblical/historical/literary allusions, but still. If you think Shakespeare’s language is hard to decipher, try reading **The Canterbury Tales** in the original Middle English. Ugh. > > As for the cliches, most of those are cliches because _he_ wrote them. Seriously, I doubt anyone was saying “Screw your courage to the sticking place” or “Ay, there’s the rub” or things like that when Shakespeare was alive. If you’re referring to his somewhat stereotypical characters, you must first realize that he was very much a satirist and wrote farce. Just read “Merchant of Venice” if you don’t believe me. > > And as for your last complaint, there _was_ no America in the 16th/17th century, let alone American teenagers, and the few who were over there weren’t exactly reading or viewing Will Shakespeare’s works. > > Ahem, sorry. Mean no disrespect. Just had to set a few things straight. “This Blessed Earth, this Plot, this England!” Ah, this and other passages moved me when I first heard them in English Literature class 35 years ago. :eek: Giselle, I’m afraid Miller is correct. :smack: Sorry! :o But your corrections are entirely correct, and (sadly) there are people who think as I pretended to. ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/22 "2003-02-03T00:29:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Molly Coddle \* > \*\*I’m thinking I’d be more interested in comdies and tragedies than romances and histories. > \*\* Aw, but the histories are so much _fun_…although I realize I’m in a minority there. (I, personally, am rather obsessed. I even like the _Henry VI_ plays. ;)) **Northern Piper** made an interesting comment on _Much Ado_: > [@](#): > > I’d just be afraid that by studying it, you lose the lightness (my usual complaint about studying comedies.) Perhaps. But I think that being able to see the darker side (which got a lot of class time last I studied the play, which was approximately two months ago) really enriches the experience in the end. My personal theory of Shakespearean comedy - which may not be original to me; I don’t know - is that with increased study of the comedies, they become less and less funny on the page, but increasingly funny in performance. In any case, _Much Ado_ would be a good choice, as would _Merchant,_ for reasons already put forth by other contributors to the thread. But those are all good choices – well, I don’t know _Merry Wives_ all that well. _Titus_ and _Measure_ aren’t, to my knowledge, taught all that much, and it’s always good to teach one or two less well-known plays. BTW, how old are your students? I still think you should do one of the histories though. Of course, the problem there is to do one you have to bring in stuff from all the others. Well, the problem is lessened if you teach _Richard II_ – but then, that’s largely just me giving a shout out to my favorite play… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Caesar\_s\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/73ab20/32.png) [@Caesar\_s\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caesar_s_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/23 "2003-02-03T02:53:47Z")
I really, really, really like Titus Andronicus (I prefer the Titus movie too!) for some reason. I don’t know why. The first appeal was James Frain in the movie version, but then I got sucked in anyway. But people might get grossed out by that. I suggest a comedy. ---
**Author:** ![Treviathan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/838e76/32.png) [@Treviathan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treviathan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/24 "2003-02-03T03:06:06Z")
**The Merchant of Venice** generally engages the most fruitful discussion, so if you want to hear your classmates debate significant topics like anti-semitism, then this might be a good bet. But I _love_ **Much Ado about Nothing** , so much so that I named my two lovebirds Beatrix and Benedick. So I’ll ultimately recommend that one. Never taken it in class, though, but I imagine you’ll have fun with it. ---
**Author:** ![MachineHead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@MachineHead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MachineHead)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/25 "2003-02-03T03:11:23Z")
I hate shakepseare, I’d enjoy something more modern. Even when they ‘update’ the language it’s still the same. I prefer Stepehn King, he’s easier to understand… ---
**Author:** ![Mothchunks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mothchunks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mothchunks)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/26 "2003-02-03T06:39:26Z")
kidding You see me, Lord Bassanio, where I stand, Such as I am: though for myself alone I would not be ambitious in my wish, To wish myself much better; yet, for you I would be trebled twenty times myself; A thousand times more fair, ten thousand times more rich; That only to stand high in your account, I might in virtue, beauties, livings, friends, Exceed account; but the full sum of me Is sum of something, which, to term in gross, Is an unlesson’d girl, unschool’d, unpractised; Happy in this, she is not yet so old But she may learn; happier than this, She is not bred so dull but she can learn; Happiest of all is that her gentle spirit Commits itself to yours to be directed, As from her lord, her governor, her king. Portia, MERCHANT OF VENICE, III, I I just love the devotion that Portia glows with in this speech. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/27 "2003-02-03T06:59:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by glee \* > \*\*“This Blessed Earth, this Plot, this England!” > Giselle, I’m afraid Miller is correct. :smack: > Sorry! :o > But your corrections are entirely correct, and (sadly) there are people who think as I pretended to. \*\* A few years ago I completed one of my life’s ambitions and read **all** the plays (even Henry VIII and Henry VI Part 1, quite awful!) By the time I was halfway through I was dreaming in blank verse, and the plays were easier to read than Stephen King. I vote for Twelth Night. For something not on the list, try Henry V. Quite stirring. The Branaugh version is quite good also. ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/28 "2003-02-03T07:03:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Voyager \* > \*\*A few years ago I completed one of my life’s ambitions and read **all** the plays (even Henry VIII and Henry VI Part 1, quite awful!) \*\* **gasp** I’m actually quite fond of the _Henry VI_s – they may be difficult to read, at least at first – but if you _see_ them performed they’re absolutely electric. Great theater. I realize this is a minority opinion…but if you could have seen the RSC’s latest production… ---
**Author:** ![G.Cornelius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@G.Cornelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.Cornelius)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/29 "2003-02-03T13:08:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Giselle \* > \*\*I really like “Twelfth Night” and “Much Ado.” Both extremely fun shows. And “Titus” is good, too, but in a creepy-disturbing-gory way. > > And of all of them, I’d say my favourite is . . . “Much Ado.” Watch the Kenneth Branagh movie. That will pretty much give you an idea of what it is – follows the original script fairly faithfully. \*\* I agree with Giselle and would like to add my vote as number one favorite: Much Ado About Nothing. And yes, the Kenneth Branagh movie is IMHO the best Shakespear film adaptation ever. ---
**Author:** ![Porus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@Porus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Porus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/30 "2003-02-03T13:14:53Z")
I haven’t seen many productions, but I would recommend Merry Wives of Windsor. It was played as a farce that seemed to progressively more manic. Great fun. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.A.Nemo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/94ad74/32.png) [@Mr.A.Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.A.Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/31 "2003-02-03T13:32:35Z")
My vote would be for **Much Ado…** It is, if you understand Shakespeare, one of the funniest of all his plays. There are some truly laugh out loud moments in it. It is a good study too. To reiterate, the Kenneth Branagh version is exceptional, even Keanu Reeves and Denzel Washington weren’t too bad. The person who steals the show is by far and away Michael Keaton, he is simply magical. I’m chuckling just thinking about his scenes. _I… am an ass._. As far as Tradgedy’s go, you’re missing King Lear. I would seriously consider that also, its probably my favorite and contains some of his greatest lines. _Blow wind and crack your cheeks… Rage! Blow!_ and of course one of my personal favorites _As flies to wanton boys are we to the Gods; they kill us for their sport._ ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/32 "2003-02-03T13:49:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mothchunks \* > **HULK SMASH THEE!** Actually, that’s a common misquotation from Shakespeare’s little-known _King Og_. 😃 I saw _Titus Andronicus_ for the first time in a rather extreme theatrical production (by Kaos Theatre, if anyone’s heard of them). The amount of disturbingly realistic blood and violence was astounding – several audience members had to leave the theatre. It’s the Quentin Tarantino of Shakespeare plays. I recommend it. As for comedies, I’ve always been partial to _Twelfth Night_. Good stuff all around. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/33 "2003-02-03T19:47:39Z")
Quoth **crinklebat** : > [@](#): > > I’ve never read a Shakespearean comedy that I didn’t find tiresome–definitely not a farce fan. The key here is that word “read”. I’ve never _seen_ a Shakespearean comedy that I didn’t enjoy immensely. Regardless of whether you like farce or not, it definitely doesn’t work on the page. That’s a point to consider, too, **Molly Coddle** : Whatever play your class decides on, you should definitely watch, either (optimally) live, or a movie version (but get one that uses the original script!). For suggestions of mine own, I know you said that you didn’t appreciate the romances as much, but my personal favorite is _The Tempest_, which also, in my experience, has a lot of room for discussion. If you want “issues”, other good ones for prompting discussion are _The Merchant of Venice_ (as mentioned) for the attitudes toward the Jews, _Othello_, for the race relations, and \*The Taming of the Shrew, for gender roles. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/34 "2003-02-03T20:45:16Z")
I really enjoyed reading _Twelfth Night_. And I think the movie version with Helena Bonham Carter, Nigel Hawthorne, and Ben Kingsley is very good. (But then, I have a crush on Helena Bonham Carter.) ---
**Author:** ![JessEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cdc98d/32.png) [@JessEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JessEnigma)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/35 "2003-02-03T21:06:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Voyager \* > \*\*For something not on the list, try Henry V. Quite stirring. The Branaugh version is quite good also. \*\* Yes, I loved that, all because of the St. Crispin’s day speech. Absolutely wonderful. Unfortunately, I’ve only read the first act – my literature class used Branagh’s film version to study the play, rather than reading. But, hey, plays are meant to be seen, right? 😃 As for me, I also really liked _Much Ado About Nothing_ when I saw Branagh’s version in my English class. I’d never seen any of Shakespeare’s comedies before and I found it quite brilliant. A nice change from the tragedies that I, at least, have virtually only been exposed to. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/36 "2003-02-03T21:43:21Z")
Just go and watch _The Complete Works of Shakespeare Abridged_. I’ve saw here in NYC off-Broadway. Not only was it the funniest stage show I’ve ever seen but you do get every single play presented to you in a single evening. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/37 "2003-02-03T23:59:08Z")
Out of the list posted in the OP, I’ll join with those who suggest _Much Ado._ Not only is it a great play, but Branagh’s excellent film version is a useful crutch for those who struggle with the language. It’s not my favorite Shakespeare, though. If you’ve got a couple of weeks, or months, or decades, to think about it, I find _Winter’s Tale_ to have nearly unplumbable depths of complexity and nuance. You have to get into line-by-line analysis of verse structure to see everything that’s going on, though, and that might be somewhat beyond what you’re looking for here. Also I’m not aware of an accessible film/video version that would assist in performance/interpretation beyond the page (the RSC version I checked out of the library a few years ago struck me as being awfully dry). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/38 "2003-02-04T02:03:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Katisha \* > \*\ ***gasp** > > I’m actually quite fond of the _Henry VI_s – they may be difficult to read, at least at first – but if you _see_ them performed they’re absolutely electric. Great theater. > > I realize this is a minority opinion…but if you could have seen the RSC’s latest production… \*\* Even the part with Joan of Arc as a promiscuous whore? :eek: In my first stab at reading the plays I went in chronological order by date of production - and I never made it past Act II of Henry VI part I. When I went in the order of the other complete works I had, sorted by Comedy, Tragedy and history, I had read enough to make it over the hump. It was not the language that got me, just the relatively poor writing. The other Henry VIs were much better. Anyway, not one I’d recommend for a high school class. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/39 "2003-02-04T02:54:34Z")
How about **King John**? No one has ever read this one. And I only know one person who has ever read **A Winter’s Tale**. You can claim any line you make up is from either of these and no one will be able to gainsay you. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227/40 "2003-02-04T09:07:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Giselle \* > **And as for your last complaint, there _was_ no America in the 16th/17th century, let alone American teenagers, and the few who were over there weren’t exactly reading or viewing Will Shakespeare’s works.** **Giselle** , not only did you not notice that the **glee** tongue was firmly in the **glee** cheek, but you overlooked that one of Shakespeare’s plays was inspired by an event that happened in America (as in the _continents_, so named since the early 1500s, not the U.S.A.). Some of the sources of _The Tempest_ were accounts published in London in 1610 of an expedition of the Virginia Company. On its way to Jamestown, the flagship was lost in a storm and ran aground on the island of Bermuda. It was presumed lost until it showed up in an astonished Jamestown ten months later, with its crew bringing glowing accounts of the island that was formerly thought by sailors to be possessed by devils. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-on-shakespearean-plays/152227.md?page=3)