# Your opinions wanted on Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 3, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849 "2009-12-03T14:44:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mo50](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@mo50](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mo50)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/21 "2009-12-03T18:32:13Z")
Okay, you can off Rudolph. But for the love of God please leave us the Heat Miser. As everyone knows, he’s an integral part of the whole nativity story! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/22 "2009-12-03T18:33:52Z")
> [@Radegast](#): > > Rudolph and the Little Drummer Boy can both be left on a frigid mountain top to perish, as far as I’m concerned. Attention all mothers: raise your hand if you think a touching gift for your newborn baby is to have someone beat on a drum for him while he’s trying to sleep. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/23 "2009-12-03T18:34:53Z")
> [@](#): > > For some reason, the parentheses don’t work, and if you right clicked the link and chose “copy link location,” that’s what it puts. But I copied directly from the address bar, and for some reason probably having to do with HTML code, my browser substitued %28 and %29 for the () and it works with those. The second time I copied from “Properties”. My address bar itself had the parentheses, though. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/24 "2009-12-03T18:55:58Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Attention all mothers: raise your hand if you think a touching gift for your newborn baby is to have someone beat on a drum for him while he’s trying to sleep. Hey —not fair!. We don’t have any indication the babe was trying to sleep. Certainly this tot would enjoy the music more than the myrrh. And there’s every indication that the other guests in the stable were appreciative. The ox and lamb even rock to the jam too, so that’s a bonus. I’m betting the baby enjoyed that. Anyway, I’m pretty certain one of the hymns says Baby Jesus wasn’t the crying type of kid. ++++++ Now if someone wants to trash **Frosty The Snowman** …Go for it!!! I’ll be right there with you. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/25 "2009-12-03T19:22:31Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [nitpick] > > It’s Donder. > > [/nitpick] You bit. Good. _Did you know…?_ It was the stupid song “Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” that butchered Donder’s name into “Donner”. And before anyone else chimes in to say it was originally “Dunder”, dig one step deeper and you will learn that Clement Moore’s original notes show it as “Donder”, even though an early release of the poem has it as Dunder. Back to Rudolph: This discussion is not about the show inasmuch as it is about Rudolph. I don’t want this thing hauled off to Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/26 "2009-12-03T19:28:26Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Rudolph represents hope in a world constrained by the rigidity of conformity and stony traditionalism. To say that if you’re not one of the “eight hardworking reindeer” you can’t have a place ot the table is the worst kind of extremism. Rudolph adds value to the team. And as world population increases (along with the number of good children), the sleigh team is bound to need to add members unless you want those hardworking eight reindeer to die of exhaution. Rudolph’s utility is also unquestionable considering the storm of the century. > > Remember this: **Traditionalism without lifeblood is cardboard folklore.** > > Sure Santa has a right to worry about the image of his team, but the reindeer in that TV special could almost be clones of each other without Rudolph. And that ugly sameness is exactly the kind of triteness that breeds plastic Christmas trees and inflatable snowmen on the lawn. Rudolph’s uniqueness in the natural Christmas setting is the uniqueness of the real Christmas tree—mine maybe not as tall as yours, but more bushy perhaps… Isn’t that sort of the joy of putting the same decorations on different trees every year. Because the difference actually embraces the traditional and expands it just as our ages have increased by yet another year? > > Rudolph could well be the second best Christmas story of all. Do you know what a team is, especially a team that thrives on being “in step” and well synchronized? Dude, Santa and the Mighty Eight (as I call them) have done a ton of world travel in all sorts of conditions. Fog? A simple “foggy night”? PUH-LEASE. Santa sees worse every year. Rudolph belongs on [Snopes.com](http://Snopes.com), brightly listed in red as “FALSE”. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/27 "2009-12-03T19:32:41Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > It was the stupid song “Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” that butchered Donder’s name into “Donner”. One person’s “butcher” is another person’s “set right.” “Donner” and “Blitzen” are German for for “Thunder” and “Lightning.” ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/28 "2009-12-03T19:37:34Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > “Donner” and “Blitzen” are German for for “Thunder” and “Lightning.” Oh, sure. And I suppose that Prancer is German for “Very very fightening me.” ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/29 "2009-12-03T19:50:30Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Oh, sure. And I suppose that Prancer is German for “Very very fightening me.” Scaramouche! ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/30 "2009-12-03T19:51:22Z")
I agree Rudolph cops a harsh bit, but that is life. How many little kids are harassed for being different, till that difference makes them useful. Look at all the TV shows we have where the Jocks pick on the nerd, then it turns out he can sing or act, then they love him. Remember _the Simpson’s_ episode where no one likes Ralph, till it turns out he CAN act and act WELL. Then at the end, everyone appreciates him and even Lisa realizes she was mean to him. The point of Rudolph is not to focus on how badly he was treated but in the end how people realized the error of their ways and made amends for it. And Rudolph gladly helps Santa out, this is also important. The lesson is DON’T HOLD A GRUDGE. Get over it. You keep watching Oprah or other shows were it’s been 25 years and the person is still crying 'cause he got picked on in the 3rd grade. By focusing on the first part and not the result you miss the point. Yes bad things happen, but people can realize the error of their ways and ask forgiveness. The BIG thing to do is accept the apology, not hold a grudge and help them out. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/31 "2009-12-03T19:56:56Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Attention all mothers: raise your hand if you think a touching gift for your newborn baby is to have someone beat on a drum for him while he’s trying to sleep. I see a Muppet Nativity, with Animal pounding on the drum shouting “Jeezus, Jeezus!” Odd how 160 year old made up crap is now tradition while 60 year old made up crap (taking the Autry version as the true start of the tradition) is crap. And now I leave you to your goyisher nachus. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/32 "2009-12-03T20:12:44Z")
One of the local news sites actually felt the need to address [why the rag doll is a misfit toy](http://wbztv.com/curious/misfit.toys.rudolph.2.1345876.html). Not to contradict you, **Cal** , but I did enjoy when they brought the AS back in and found him a job putting the stars on Christmas trees. I used to teach job development for counselors who work with people with disabilities, and we talked a lot about job carving—find that one thing that this person is exceptionally good at, find where there’s a need for that skill, and…voila! Match made. Actually, I don’t much like any of that particular special. for me it’s Charlie Brown, the Grinch, then nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/33 "2009-12-03T20:16:59Z")
I disagree with your treatise, Philster. Rudolph is an intregal part of the reindeer team. It’s like in the '60s and ‘70s when Congress mandated things like seat belts and air bags into cars. “oh no!” they proclaimed. “no one will want that. It’s going to cost too much. People won’t use them. It’s aesthetically unpleasing!” And then, they put them in and realized that not only did the public want them, but, by God they had to have them. Who in the hell would buy a car nowadays without a freakin’ seatbelt? It would just be insane! Well Rudolph is that necessary piece of safety equipment. Seriously, would you drive your car at night without headlights? HEADLIGHTS! For four hundred years Santa gambled with the lives of himself and eight Rangifer tarandus, not to mention the hopes and dreams of good little boys and girls around the world by zooming around the planet at close to the speed of light without any way of seeing where he was going. And then, and THEN, came one foggy Christmas Eve. Santa finally said “hey, you know, seeing where I’m heading would probably be a good thing.” For hundreds of years, Santa played Russian Roulette and managed to get lucky. He needn’t play those reindeer games any more. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/34 "2009-12-03T20:19:54Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Have you ever read the original story? (It was turned into a cartoon in the forties by the Fleischer gang, who were Famous Studios by then) – Rudolph is _not_ one of Santa’s reindeer. He’s just a random reindeer who lives in a suburban human-type home by Santa who comes on that foggy Christmas. Santa, seeing his glowing red nose, asks him to be on the team. And, fortunately, Rudolph can fly. It’s like being that guy who got recruited into the rock band because the drummer couldn’t work. But Rudolph’s not part of the team in the Rankin Bass special either. Or do you mean that he was in training to be? (Because he goes to that flying practice with Comet as a kid.) I just assumed that he wasn’t because Santa doesn’t ask him to be part of the team until his nose glowed red at the Christmas party. ---
**Author:** ![Ronald\_C.Semone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cc9497/32.png) [@Ronald\_C.Semone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_C.Semone)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/35 "2009-12-03T20:26:29Z")
I’ve had trouble with Rudolph ever since I first heard Gene Autry singing the song. Even as a little kid I was bothered by the line “Do you recall the most famous reindeer of all?” If he is the most famous reindeer of all, why should there be any question about recalling him? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/36 "2009-12-03T20:29:16Z")
> [@](#): > > But Rudolph’s not part of the team in the Rankin Bass special either. Or do you mean that he was in training to be? In the original story Rudolph didn’t live at the North Pole and wasn’t associated in any way with Santa Claus, Inc. It’s as if Santa came into some random kid’s house and asked him to guide the sleigh because he had a red nose. In the Rankin-Bass special Rudolph lived in close proximity to Santa and certainly tried out for the sleigh team, and originally had a chance to do so before his distracting nose killed his chances. Vast difference. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/37 "2009-12-03T20:35:44Z")
> [@Ronald\_C.Semone](#): > > I’ve had trouble with Rudolph ever since I first heard Gene Autry singing the song. Even as a little kid I was bothered by the line “Do you recall the most famous reindeer of all?” If he is the most famous reindeer of all, why should there be any question about recalling him? Gene Autry used to be the most famous cowboy singer of all. Ask your kids if they recall him. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/38 "2009-12-03T20:35:52Z")
> [@lorene](#): > > One of the local news sites actually felt the need to address [why the rag doll is a misfit toy](http://wbztv.com/curious/misfit.toys.rudolph.2.1345876.html). It’s because she hasn’t any dreams left to dream. Freak. ---
**Author:** ![boozilu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@boozilu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boozilu)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/39 "2009-12-03T20:43:39Z")
Side point on the poor Abominable Snowman – he was out of work until he scored that gig in The Empire Strikes Back (joke courtesy of a close friend) ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849/40 "2009-12-03T21:12:00Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > In the original story Rudolph didn’t live at the North Pole and wasn’t associated in any way with Santa Claus, Inc. It’s as if Santa came into some random kid’s house and asked him to guide the sleigh because he had a red nose. > > In the Rankin-Bass special Rudolph lived in close proximity to Santa and certainly tried out for the sleigh team, and originally had a chance to do so before his distracting nose killed his chances. Vast difference. Ah, okay. And yeah, I agree, the idea of reindeer living in the suburbs in regular houses is…bizarre. Is there a version of this story online? I want to read it pretty badly now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-opinions-wanted-on-rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer/519849.md?page=3)