# Your out of your jurisdiction! - Does it matter **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 18, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237 "2016-09-18T04:19:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/1 "2016-09-18T04:19:15Z")
Vaguely inspired by [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=804668) discussion. How big of a deal is jurisdiction in US law enforcement, legally speaking? It’s a pretty common trope in cop movies, but how does it work in IRL? As I understand it across state lines it is absolute, as in, a cop from state A has no more power in state B than a visiting foreign cop would have. But what about other types of jurisdiction? A state cop on federal land for example. A pretty common issue I imagine where I live in SF, as there are large chunks of land that are federal parks. Is a SFPD cop who strays into Golden Gate park (part of federal recreation area and policed by park service rangers) purely a civilian? What about a county sheriff in the city or vice-versa, or a cop from one county in the next? Is the purely a management based distinction (i.e. they have different bosses, but no difference legally speaking), or do they lose power of arrest. I realize in practice cops from neighboring jurisdictions have plenty of reason to work together and not get territorial, but what does the letter of the law say? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/2 "2016-09-18T05:31:31Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > What about a county sheriff in the city or vice-versa, or a cop from one county in the next? Is the purely a management based distinction (i.e. they have different bosses, but no difference legally speaking), or do they lose power of arrest. Some of both, and in between. It’s up to each state to figure out. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2016, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/3 "2016-09-18T07:19:14Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > A state cop on federal land for example. A pretty common issue I imagine where I live in SF, as there are large chunks of land that are federal parks. Is a SFPD cop who strays into Golden Gate park (part of federal recreation area and policed by park service rangers) purely a civilian? There are three categories of federal land, and the powers of a state/local cop depend on which category we’re talking about. The feds have _exclusive_ jurisdiction over military bases, federal buildings, post offices, and a few other similar categories–the locals have no say or role there. The feds have _concurrent_ jurisdiction over a much broader range of federal lands. There, federal and state/local law enforcement have equal powers, and any given crime can be handled by either the federal or state courts. Finally, there is _proprietary_ jurisdiction. Here, the feds are operating just as landowners, and the feds rely upon the locals for all law enforcement duties. Most national forest land is held under proprietary jurisdiction, for example. Which category any given piece of property falls into varies WIDELY (and WILDLY), often dependent on how the feds acquired the land in the first place. Yellowstone National Park, e.g., falls under exclusive federal jurisdiction because it was created before Idaho, Wyoming, or Montana achieved statehood; however, the park rangers have mutual aid and cooperation agreements with many local agencies. (For example, if the park’s jail is full, the overflow will be housed at the West Yellowstone (Wyoming) Police Dept’s facility.) Meanwhile, all of the National Park Service property in Missouri (such as Wilson’s Creek National Battlefield) was acquired long after Missouri statehood, and hence the state of Missouri and the feds had to negotiate jurisdiction. (It’s concurrent, by state and federal law. See [Missouri Revised Statutes](http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/01200000271.html).) ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2016, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/4 "2016-09-18T07:35:11Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > There are three categories of federal land, and the powers of a state/local cop depend on which category we’re talking about. > > The feds have _exclusive_ jurisdiction over military bases, federal buildings, post offices, and a few other similar categories–the locals have no say or role there. > > The feds have _concurrent_ jurisdiction over a much broader range of federal lands. There, federal and state/local law enforcement have equal powers, and any given crime can be handled by either the federal or state courts. > > Finally, there is _proprietary_ jurisdiction. Here, the feds are operating just as landowners, and the feds rely upon the locals for all law enforcement duties. Most national forest land is held under proprietary jurisdiction, for example. > > Which category any given piece of property falls into varies WIDELY (and WILDLY), often dependent on how the feds acquired the land in the first place. Yellowstone National Park, e.g., falls under exclusive federal jurisdiction because it was created before Idaho, Wyoming, or Montana achieved statehood; however, the park rangers have mutual aid and cooperation agreements with many local agencies. (For example, if the park’s jail is full, the overflow will be housed at the West Yellowstone (Wyoming) Police Dept’s facility.) > > Meanwhile, all of the National Park Service property in Missouri (such as Wilson’s Creek National Battlefield) was acquired long after Missouri statehood, and hence the state of Missouri and the feds had to negotiate jurisdiction. (It’s concurrent, by state and federal law. See [Missouri Revised Statutes](http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/01200000271.html).) Good to know. [Apparently](https://www.nps.gov/goga/learn/historyculture/upload/Chapter%203.pdf)most of the GGNRA that is former military (including all the awesome, former Nike missile batteries) is exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Me\_Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Me\_Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Billy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/5 "2016-09-18T14:48:54Z")
I live in a small town in a rural area. There are several other small towns nearby. Also nearby are various lands owned by the county, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, U.S. Forest Service, BLM, and the State. All the small towns, county, state, and various federal agencies have their own cops, but none have enough to deal with any big incident on their own. So very frequently you will see cops from several different governments/agencies responding to an incident. This could simply be a car accident. And it just so happens certain cops are nearby, but not the cops having “official” jurisdiction. But it may be 45 minutes before that cop can get there, so the closest help will respond first. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/6 "2016-09-18T15:16:36Z")
Yes, in practice cops will cooperate across jurisdiction lines. After an emergency is over they may squabble about who has to file paperwork and who does follow up. They will also cooperate to go after criminals operating across jurisdictional lines, and bad guys fleeing from one jurisdiction to another. There are instances where no permission is needed to cross a jurisdiction line. If cops are hotly pursuing a fleeing bad guy, for example - if I recall correctly there has been at least one instance of someone killing someone in Wisconsin then fleeing through Chicago/Illinois all the way into Indiana, trailing a gradually growing tail of various law enforcement vehicles. Non-emergency situations may or may not result in disputes over who has jurisdiction, but then, in those instances there is the luxury of it not being an emergency. If the situation is not an emergency then the “invading” law enforcement should ask permission to operate in the area prior to doing so. Failure to do so can result in expense court dealings - there have been a few instances of Chicago city cops operating in my county (Lake County, Indiana) without permission that resulted in some yelling and hollering, and a least one incident I know of where a Chicago police helicopter earned the ire of the FAA/Feds so conflicts do happen. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/7 "2016-09-18T17:50:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There are instances where no permission is needed to cross a jurisdiction line. If cops are hotly pursuing a fleeing bad guy, for example - Unless onto a Federal Military base, where they are stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/8 "2016-09-18T18:11:17Z")
Well, OK, there’s that exception. That is the thing with the US and it’s multiple levels of governance - exceptions to almost any rule you care to come up with. ---
**Author:** ![NeonMadman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58f4c7/32.png) [@NeonMadman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeonMadman)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/9 "2016-09-18T23:45:31Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There are instances where no permission is needed to cross a jurisdiction line. If cops are hotly pursuing a fleeing bad guy, for example - if I recall correctly there has been at least one instance of someone killing someone in Wisconsin then fleeing through Chicago/Illinois all the way into Indiana, trailing a gradually growing tail of various law enforcement vehicles. > > Non-emergency situations may or may not result in disputes over who has jurisdiction, but then, in those instances there is the luxury of it not being an emergency. If the situation is not an emergency then the “invading” law enforcement should ask permission to operate in the area prior to doing so. Failure to do so can result in expense court dealings - there have been a few instances of Chicago city cops operating in my county (Lake County, Indiana) without permission that resulted in some yelling and hollering, and a least one incident I know of where a Chicago police helicopter earned the ire of the FAA/Feds so conflicts do happen. I’ve wondered about this with regard to traffic situations. If a cop picks me up at a speed trap in New York, but I’ve crossed the line into New Jersey before he catches up to me, can he still pull me over? I’ve never actually had a situation like that happen, but it’s a theoretical possibility, since I live in NJ in a border town between the two states and the next town over is in NY state, and loves to set up speed traps to get ticket revenue (as is pretty much true everywhere in NY state). ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/10 "2016-09-19T01:50:28Z")
> [@NeonMadman](#): > > I’ve wondered about this with regard to traffic situations. If a cop picks me up at a speed trap in New York, but I’ve crossed the line into New Jersey before he catches up to me, can he still pull me over? IANAL but [this guy](http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/business-career/legal/police-jurisdiction) is, and he says, and I’ve always understood, that a cop can always cross into another jurisdiction when he’s in “hot pursuit”. This article discusses other jurisdiction issues as well. –Mark ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/11 "2016-09-19T02:34:07Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > IANAL but [this guy](http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/business-career/legal/police-jurisdiction) is, and he says, and I’ve always understood, that a cop can always cross into another jurisdiction when he’s in “hot pursuit”. This article discusses other jurisdiction issues as well. Except, again, onto a Federal Military base. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/12 "2016-09-19T02:42:33Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > IANAL but [this guy](http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/business-career/legal/police-jurisdiction) is, and he says, and I’ve always understood, that a cop can always cross into another jurisdiction when he’s in “hot pursuit”. This article discusses other jurisdiction issues as well. > > –Mark Hot pursuit doctrine generally covers felonies not motor vehicle violations. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/13 "2016-09-19T04:32:33Z")
> [@NeonMadman](#): > > I’ve wondered about this with regard to traffic situations. If a cop picks me up at a speed trap in New York, but I’ve crossed the line into New Jersey before he catches up to me, can he still pull me over? I’ve never actually had a situation like that happen, but it’s a theoretical possibility, since I live in NJ in a border town between the two states and the next town over is in NY state, and loves to set up speed traps to get ticket revenue (as is pretty much true everywhere in NY state). IANAL - my guess - he can’t pull you over in another state, since he has no authority. But he can flag your car license plate for failing to stop for a police vehicle for running away from him, and next time you drive through, if they happen to run your plate, may haul you off to jail. ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/14 "2016-09-19T04:58:40Z")
Old story, may be urban legend, and laws may have changed: Speeder fled to second and third state, persuing officer radioed for backup, and the posse ticketed him in each state, county, and municipality he went through. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/15 "2016-09-19T05:09:48Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > IANAL - my guess - he can’t pull you over in another state, since he has no authority. But he can flag your car license plate for failing to stop for a police vehicle for running away from him, and next time you drive through, if they happen to run your plate, may haul you off to jail. Eluding the police is a felony so it would be hot pursuit and allowed. > [@svd678](#): > > Old story, may be urban legend, and laws may have changed: Speeder fled to second and third state, persuing officer radioed for backup, and the posse ticketed him in each state, county, and municipality he went through. I don’t know if there was a specific case as you mentioned but there is no reason why he wouldn’t be cited for every new violation. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/16 "2016-09-19T08:25:26Z")
Eluding the police may be a felony but I seriously doubt a cop is going to engage in hot pursuit for a minor traffic violation unless he thinks something else hinky is going on. The risk vs. benefit doesn’t justify it. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/17 "2016-09-19T08:48:26Z")
Doesn’t a police officer out of her jurisdiction still have all the powers of arrest of an ordinary civilian? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/18 "2016-09-19T08:58:47Z")
Yes, but ONLY the “powers” of an ordinary citizen. Such a police officer might be better informed as to what those powers actually are or aren’t, though. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/19 "2016-09-19T12:07:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Eluding the police may be a felony but I seriously doubt a cop is going to engage in hot pursuit for a minor traffic violation unless he thinks something else hinky is going on. The risk vs. benefit doesn’t justify it. The police officer does not initiate a pursuit, the suspect does. The officer has to take all the risk factors involved and decide when to break to off. Or very often the supervisor does. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237/20 "2016-09-19T13:49:48Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > The feds have _exclusive_ jurisdiction over military bases, federal buildings, post offices, and a few other similar categories–the locals have no say or role there Wait, so if a local cop is chasing me, all I have to do is run into a Post Office, and then I can stand there sticking out my tongue at the cop without him being able to do anything about it? And if I start pickpocketing and purse-snatching in Post Offices, I’d have to be arrested and prosecuted by the feds? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-out-of-your-jurisdiction-does-it-matter/766237.md?page=2)