# Your Pronunciation **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 23, 2021, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375 "2021-08-23T15:27:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2021, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/261 "2021-09-16T19:48:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > “Experiment” is an interesting one. It’s one of those words where I may say it either way, but I never noticed until you guys brought it up. Playing aroudn with it, it seems I usually use the “spear” pronunciation, but will sometimes use the other pronunciation for the noun version, generally referring to something more formal, like a science experiment. ISTM there are _three_ ways of pronouncing the vowel sound of the 2nd syllable of “experiment” being discussed in this thread: 1. The “spear” pronunciation, which I would tend to write phonetically as “peer,” and which is represented in IPA as i 2. The way I pronounce it, which I would tend to write phonetically as “pehr,” and which is represented in IPA as ɛ 3. The way I would tend to write phonetically as “pair,” and which I find the best approximation in IPA is æ I believe some people hear 2 and 3 as the same because of the marry/Mary/merry merger. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2021, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/262 "2021-09-16T19:58:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > For me, at least, I would write it more like jinja-rail. It definitely sounded to me like the last syllable started with an R. That’s why it took me a while to associate it with the word “ginger ale.” > > And, even then, it was a while before I noticed it was basically the same sort of word as “root beer,”–i.e. a non-alcoholic drink using the name of an alcoholic one. Yep. I suppose in my mind the last syllable would have been “rail”, but I’m not sure how that differs from what I wrote (?) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2021, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/263 "2021-09-16T20:09:15Z")
This thread is a lot longer than the last time I popped in. Has anyone asked my General Question? Why do people insert extra syllables into words; for example, jewelry, realtor, and athlete? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2021, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/264 "2021-09-16T20:34:04Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Why do people insert extra syllables into words; for example, jewelry, realtor, and athlete? I can’t speak to athlete or jewelry but until a series of ads within the past decade I had never heard anyone say realtor instead of real-ah-tor. The apparently correct pronunciation sounds ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/265 "2021-09-16T20:41:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Why do people insert extra syllables into words; for example, jewelry, realtor, and athlete? For years I’ve been asking (thinking) the same question and it’s only since my participation here that the answer seems to be some combination of geography, local usage, and um, other stuff that I’m not versed in. It’s a really interesting subject to me but the anwer always seems to amount to " people speak differently". Aggravates my misophonia like a mother. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/266 "2021-09-16T20:46:42Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](#): > > Aggravates my misophonia like a mother. You listen to Japanese soup? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/267 "2021-09-17T05:14:29Z")
My intent was just to say that I’d write it differently. I assumed we were probably talking about the same pronunciation, but I wasn’t entirely sure. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/268 "2021-09-17T05:58:44Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Why do people insert extra syllables into words; for example, jewelry, realtor, and athlete? I still see commercials by jewelers who say “JOO-lurry”. Man, can’t you even pronounce the name of your own profession? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/269 "2021-09-17T06:19:05Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > This thread is a lot longer than the last time I popped in. > > Has anyone asked my General Question? > > Why do people insert extra syllables into words; for example, jewelry, realtor, and athlete? I may have, indirectly. I pointed out why sometimes “spearmint” comes out of my mouth as three syllables instead of two. Sometimes there’s a bit of a gap between moving my tongue out of the way for the R and closing my lips for the M. Going from a hard R to another sound or vice versa is a complex movement. Jewelry has L and R right next to each other, and trying to move your tongue from the lateral L position to curved R position can leave a gap. The same can be true moving your tongue back from the TH sound to the L sound. Realtor, however, I suspect is not the same. There we have metathesis, where two sounds get swapped, usually due to the other direction being less complex. While not everyone would notice it, the syllable “real” has a schwa before the L. This happens as you move the tongue back for the back L, which just does not combine with the “ee” sound the same as it does for, say, the “ah” sound. So we actually have “REE-əl-tər”. This then gets swapped to “REE-lə-tər.” It’s possible this is also the case for jewelry. Some will say jew-el-ry, not jule-ree. It doesn’t much for that to become joo-lə-ry. Syllables with vowels at the end are easier to say. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/270 "2021-09-17T13:46:04Z")
[quote=“BigT, post:269, topic:949375”] Jewelry has L and R right next to each other, and trying to move your tongue from the lateral L position to curved R position can leave a gap.[/quote] Then why don’t people have this problem with rivalry, chivalry, cavalry, etc.? I suspect the “w” has something to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/271 "2021-09-17T14:00:21Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Then why don’t people have this problem with… cavalry…? I’ve noticed a lot of people pronounce it like the biblical hill. As I was commuting to the office yesterday, I’m pretty sure I heard a reporter on NPR say ‘Calvary’ instead of ‘cavalry’. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/272 "2021-09-17T14:03:49Z")
Yep. I definitely hear “calvary” for “cavalry.” As a kid, I always had to stop and think about which one was correct for the horsemen. ---
**Author:** ![BrickBat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@BrickBat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrickBat)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/273 "2021-09-17T16:40:07Z")
Regarding root beer. Since I was a kid and through my formative years, and in those environs, root beer always came out as “_Roopeer_”, with the “t” hardly uttered, and the “b” being replaced by a very soft “p”. In the same time, and the same area, the word “theater” came out as “_Theerturr_”.The “a” was never pronounced unless the word was used in other variations, like say, “theatrical”. I remember my grandmother used to get annoyed when she heard one of our neighbor ladies pronounce “theater” in the correct enunciated way because she would later say she sounded prissy. > [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](#): > > Holy cow! You just made me recall that growing up I definitely said it “spear a mint”, with the “a” just barely pronounced. I think once I was old enough to see it in print and associate the spelling, I then pronounced it the “correct” way. And while I’m blathering about childhood pronunciations, gingerale was something more like “jinjarale”. I didn’t parse it as an ale with the essence of ginger. It was just a name(if that makes sense). I’ll raise you another holy cow, as your renderings of “experiment” and “ginger ale” mirror(ed) mine exactly. ---
**Author:** ![BrickBat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@BrickBat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrickBat)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/274 "2021-09-17T17:01:47Z")
Memory jog came too late to make edit window. Nearly similar in the dropped/very faint “t” and substituting a very soft “p” in place of a “t” while pronouncing root beer, it also happened with the word football. “_Foop-all_”. I used the hyphen because their was also a very subtly glottal stop involved. For people farther “down county” ( and closer to NYC ) it came out as “_Fooppawll_”. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/275 "2021-09-17T17:03:34Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Then why don’t people have this problem with rivalry, chivalry, cavalry, etc.? I suspect the “w” has something to do with it. Good point. Sure, as others mention, cavalry often gets the metathesis treatment, but the other two are said just fine. I doubt it’s the W, as that’s not really pronounced as a separate letter. But it definitely could be the vowel. I can see two possibilities, both of which may be valid. 1. If the standard pronunciation is “JOOL-ree”, then the difference may have to do with the preceding vowel involving less mouth space. In the other words you mention, I find I open my mouth like I was saying the word "ol’,"m as in “old” without the D. That may make the L to R transition easier. 2. If the standard pronunciation is JOO-əl-ree, then you have the issues that there are two vowels next to each other, unlike in your other options. In that case, it makes sense that you get the metathesis that I mentioned earlier. It’s generally easier to divide two syllables with a consonant. You may notice that often words that have two vowels together in two different syllables wind up with some consonant between them, e.g. co-op becomes “COH-wop,” or neo- becomes “NEE-yoh.” I’ve even seen “The First Noel” spelled out as “The First Nowell.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/276 "2021-09-17T17:19:12Z")
> [@BrickBat](#): > > Memory jog came too late to make edit window. > > Nearly similar in the dropped/very faint “t” and substituting a very soft “p” in place of a “t” while pronouncing root beer, it also happened with the word football. > > “_Foop-all_”. I used the hyphen because their was also a very subtly glottal stop involved. For people farther “down county” ( and closer to NYC ) it came out as “_Fooppawll_”. Interesting. In my experience, there’s no /p/. It’s just that the /t/ is completely glottalized, and the sound completely before the /b/. But perhaps some variations actually still have air flowing up to the /b/, which would sound like a /p/. It took me a second, but I can say it that way. I find that, in my accent, /t/ gets glottalized at the ends of words all the time. Sometimes my tongue still moves into position, and other times it doesn’t. Oh, and glottalization refers to mixing in a glottal stop with the sound in question. In other words, you partially or completely stop the sound with the vocal cords rather than your lips, tongue, etc. The most well-known example is probably how someone with a stereotypical Cockney accent says the T in water or better, but it’s not always that obvious. > **[T-glottalization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-glottalization)** > > In English phonology, t-glottalization or t-glottalling is a sound change in certain English dialects and accents, particularly in the United Kingdom, that causes the phoneme /t/ to be pronounced as the glottal stop \[ʔ\] ⓘ in certain positions. It is never universal, especially in careful speech, and it most often alternates with other allophones of /t/ such as \[t\]ⓘ, \[tʰ\], \[tⁿ\] (before a nasal), \[tˡ\] (before a lateral), or \[ɾ\]. > As a sound change, it is a subtype of debuccalization. The pronunci... ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/277 "2021-09-17T18:49:27Z")
Now this reminds me that I had to practice saying words like “water” and “daughter”. I grew up saying it like “wadder” and I hate the sound of that. But I didn’t want to sound Cockney either (not that there’s anything wrong with that if you’re actually English!). ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/278 "2021-09-17T19:10:46Z")
> [@BrickBat](#): > > In the same time, and the same area, the word “theater” came out as “ _Theerturr_ ”.The “a” was never pronounced unless the word was used in other variations, like say, “theatrical”. I remember my grandmother used to get annoyed when she heard one of our neighbor ladies pronounce “theater” in the correct enunciated way because she would later say she sounded prissy. And then there are the people who say “thee- **A** -turr”. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/279 "2021-09-17T19:18:13Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](#): > > Now this reminds me that I had to practice saying words like “water” and “daughter”. I grew up saying it like “wadder” and I hate the sound of that. But I didn’t want to sound Cockney either (not that there’s anything wrong with that if you’re actually English!). This inspires me to ask what your native accent is. AFAIK, replacing the t in water with a flip (soft D) is standard American. The only people I know who pronounce the T as a /t/ are all Brits. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375/280 "2021-09-17T19:31:22Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > This inspires me to ask what your native accent is. > > AFAIK, replacing the t in water with a flip (soft D) is standard American. The only people I know who pronounce the T as a /t/ are all Brits. I think I might have shared this here before; I grew up in SoCal and until I was twelve(ish) I had the typical surfer sound (kind of like Valley Girl but, stoned?). My mother (verbally) beat that out of me so I’ve tried to speak as “neutrally” as possible. I have no illusions that I don’t have some kind of accent but I try. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-pronunciation/949375.md?page=15)