# Your reaction to Vader's revelation in ESB? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2007, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938 "2007-04-06T02:26:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/21 "2007-04-06T15:59:06Z")
[QUOTE=Shawn1767] I was 13 when Empire came out and I was convinced that Vader was lying to manipulate Luke. I was like “How are they going to explain that little plot twist if it’s true?” So, I refused to believe it until I saw Return of the Jedi on opening day 3 years later. [/QUOTE] Yup. I refused to believe that Ben would mislead Luke and knew that guys in black hats were _totally_ untrustworthy. Kind of pissed me off when it turned out to be true. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/22 "2007-04-06T16:04:56Z")
Like others, thought it was a lie. Took a while to realize I was supposed to take it seriously. Pretty lame plot point of an otherwise excellent movie. I guess that was the first scratching on the wall for the rest of the series. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/23 "2007-04-06T16:16:43Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] That’s really neat. Now, if you don’t tell him about the prequels, you may be ready for a spot in the Dad hall of fame. 😉 [/QUOTE] Too late - he was so dialed into Star Wars that we couldn’t have kept him from seeing Ep1 if we’d bolted him to the floor (don’t think we didn’t consider it). It took him a bit to realize that Jar Jar was a twit, young Ani was pointless and the damn pod race a pathetic time sink, but he did - on his own. Same thing with music - no Raffi or Wiggles allowed; we’re a Ramones, Beatles and Beach Boys household, thankyouverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/24 "2007-04-06T16:18:03Z")
I was 11 and didn’t believe it for a second! My friends and I debated that for months. Of course we also thought that Han Solo was the “other” that Kenobi mentions too… so we weren’t exactly to bright. I didnt believe it until RtoJ came out and Ben said it on the screen. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/25 "2007-04-06T16:39:29Z")
I was quite young, seriously into “Star Wars,” and remember being pretty shocked and reluctant to believe it, when I saw the movie in the theater. My parents had already seen the movie a couple of days prior and only told me there was a “big surprise” coming at some point, so I annoyed the hell out of them throughout the film (which they watched again with me) by asking “was _that_ the surprise?” after almost every scene. So literally speaking, my reaction was to ask “so was _THAT_ it?” and being told “yes, _ **THAT** _ was the surprise!” by my exasperated folks. (On another note, my reaction to the Leia-sister revelation in RotJ was a combination eye-roll and sigh. The downfall of the series really did begin long before _The Phantom Menace_.) ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/26 "2007-04-06T16:53:07Z")
NOOOOO!!! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/27 "2007-04-06T17:03:19Z")
[QUOTE=HubZilla] How did you react? I saw it in elementary school and was more shocked Luke got his hand cut off. I mean, he was the hero and he totally got his ass kicked. How often does that happen? I didn’t really think much of the relevation at the time, thinking Vader was lying. [/QUOTE] Even at the age of eight I thought it was pretty obvious: Darth Vader=dark father. Luke getting his hand wacked off, however, was a total shocker, and remains so after repeated viewings. It’s one thing for the hero to take a few flesh wounds, or perhaps even get a scar or two in some unobtrusive location, but a disfiguring, debilitating injury in the middle of a fight? Whoa! That was impressive, and makes the whole confrontation one of the most dramatic ever put to film. [QUOTE=Tuckerfan] I _still_ say it was one of those Jedi mindtricks and that Lucas died in a horrible car crash shortly after ESB opened, and thus the series has never progressed beyond that point. [/QUOTE] If but only. Adding Ewoks to the original plotline and calling it a sequel for _Return of the Jedi_ was bad enough; the expository filling in of backstory, complete with obligatory refrences to future characters (the stormtroopers are all based on clones of Boba Fett’s father? How contrived is that?) was totally unnecessary and almost completely suspense-free, the lack of a Han Solo-type rogue made the ponderous drama seem amateurish, and the less said about the gratuitous overuse of CGI the better. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/28 "2007-04-06T18:18:50Z")
I don’t even remember when I first saw the movie, but by the time I did, it had probably osmotically worked its way into my consciousness before then. So no particular reaction. I’m pretty sure, though, that I figured out on my own that Luke and Leia were sibs (and also that Leia was the “There is another”) before it was officially revealed. So when I saw that scene in _Return of the Jedi_, my reaction was something along the lines of “What, didn’t they know already? Why so surprised?”. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/29 "2007-04-06T18:21:12Z")
My two brothers & I saw it together, & we **freaked**! Nothing, and I do mean _nothing_ that I ever saw or heard in a film, with the possible exception of the first glimpse of a dino in _Jurassic Park_, ever came close to that thunderous moment. And the whole theatre agreed with us. Not a sound in the room, but the feeling of stunned shock was palpable, electric even, in the room. I can forgive Lucas even for Ewoks, for this one great cinematic moment. But not for Jar-Jar, of course. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/30 "2007-04-06T18:22:26Z")
I first saw it in the theater and thought it an interesting twist. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Hildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@Johnny\_Hildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Hildo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/31 "2007-04-06T19:14:24Z")
I thought Vader was lying. For the longest time after the first movie came out I was convinced Vader was a robot. Then the Vader with his helmet off scene in the second one confused me even more. _Just what the hell IS he?_ I wondered. But yes, I thought he was lying. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/32 "2007-04-06T19:41:52Z")
[QUOTE=Shawn1767] I was 13 when Empire came out and I was convinced that Vader was lying to manipulate Luke. I was like “How are they going to explain that little plot twist if it’s true?” So, I refused to believe it until I saw Return of the Jedi on opening day 3 years later. [/QUOTE] Me, too. It seemed exactly the kind of mind-screwing lie an evil SOB like Vader would throw at our innocent hero. When I walked out of the theater, that’s the opinion I expressed–it’s an evil lie. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/33 "2007-04-06T19:49:05Z")
I saw it in the theater within days of its opening. I was in Med School. I was blown away by the revelation. Later, putting it all together, I realized that my reaction was due to the wonder of having the potential for a far, far more complex and fascinating storyline open up before us all. Sadly, future films never truly realized the promise of the first two movies. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/34 "2007-04-06T20:02:12Z")
[QUOTE=smiling bandit] My mom wen to see Return of the Jedi when she was pregnant with me [/QUOTE] …Holy crap I am so freaking old. ---
**Author:** ![dmatsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3be4f8/32.png) [@dmatsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dmatsch)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/35 "2007-04-06T20:19:31Z")
[QUOTE=HubZilla] I mean, he was the hero and he totally got his ass kicked. How often does that happen? [/QUOTE] Luke got his ass handed to him in every one of the trilogies. IV: almost drowned/got eaten by the garbage monster V: Almost froze/got eaten by the wampa, had his hand cut off and dropped down the OSHA-Compliant ventilator shaft VI: Deep fried by the emperor. As far as my reaction, I thought it was kind of lame as in a soap-opera sort of lame. I too thought Vader was manipulating him, and refused to believe it until Lucas confirmed it in VI. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/36 "2007-04-06T21:23:59Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] (Did we really need to spoiler that? I doubt there is one person on the Dope who doesn’t know!) [/QUOTE] I know, I just always wanted to do that. I agree with **Vinyl Turnip** that I rolled my eyes at Luke/Leia’s relationship. Absolutely NO foreshadowing. Just a convenient way to solve the love triangle (although I did agree that Han had more chemistry with Leia) [QUOTE=pinkfreud] Me, too. Frickin’ Time magazine published a review that spilled the beans about Darth Vader & Luke. I never forgave Time for that. [/QUOTE] Did they? I was curious enough to look it up, and lo and behold, Time put the entire Star Wars and ESB magazines [online](http://www.time.com/time/archive/collections/0,21428,c_star_wars,00.shtml)! Where was it spoiled? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/37 "2007-04-06T21:50:05Z")
[QUOTE=dmatsch] Luke got his ass handed to him in every one of the trilogies. IV: almost drowned/got eaten by the garbage monster V: Almost froze/got eaten by the wampa, had his hand cut off and dropped down the OSHA-Compliant ventilator shaft VI: Deep fried by the emperor. [/quote] Pretty much all action movies have the hero getting their ass handed to them at one point or another. Movies where the hero waltz around doing everything perfectly without ever breaking a sweat aren’t much fun. The difference between _Empire_ and most other movies is that it _ends_ with the hero getting his ass kicked, instead of using it to setup his eventual triumph. (well, it does do that, but not until the following movie) Usually, the ass-kicking comes at some point in the second act, and then the hero rallies and emerges triumphant. Sure, Luke gets manhandled by the dianoga, but he gets out in short order and returns to blow up the Death Star by the end of the movie. He gets electrocuted by the Emperor in _Jedi_, but his refusal to kill his father and turn to the dark side inspires Vader to redeem himself and off Palpatine. In Empire, Luke gets permanently maimed, runs away… and then the movie just ends. That’s surprisingly bleak for a popcorn flick. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Hildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@Johnny\_Hildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Hildo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/38 "2007-04-06T21:52:06Z")
I can remember reading in the newspaper before the ROTJ was released that Luke and Leia were siblings. Article also confirmed the father/son thing. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/39 "2007-04-07T20:54:19Z")
I saw the movie in my 20s when it first came out. I was disappointed. I thought he had been built up as an ultimate evil guy, and for him to turn out as just a man was a letdown. IIRC Lucas said that he originally had Vader as Luke’s father, but the story in ep. III had taken a turn and set up Vader the way I thought. It was Lucas’ conscious decision to return to his original concept. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938/40 "2007-04-07T20:59:42Z")
I am still convinced that the whole Darth Vader is Luke’s father thing is a lie, and I am waiting for episode VII to validate this and ultimately explain episodes I–III and VI. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-reaction-to-vaders-revelation-in-esb/398938.md?page=3)