# Your score for the Obama-Palin nuclear debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599 "2010-04-10T00:42:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/41 "2010-04-10T18:42:55Z")
John, stop fucking around. It was bin Laden, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/42 "2010-04-10T18:56:59Z")
[The Daily Show with Trevor Noah - TV Series | Comedy Central US](http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-april-8-2010/the-big-bang-treaty) Palin and Fox have little familiarity with the truth. They have no shame and pay no attention to the facts. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/43 "2010-04-10T19:04:19Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > HOW IS SHE IN POLITICS? > > How can conservatives support her?! Well, bless her heart; she means well. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/44 "2010-04-10T19:09:18Z")
> [@InterestedObserver](#): > > The entire premise that Obama is a far left radical “socialist” is complete and utter bullshit. He is, in reality, a moderate pragmatist, but the right wing has moved so far to the right in recent decades that anyone slightly left of Hitler can be cast as an extreme leftist. :rolleyes: It’s incredibly telling that many consider John Paul Stevens to be the most liberal of the Supreme Court Justices. He’s a registered Republican and considers himself conservative. He has often said publicly that over these last 30 years he hasn’t grown more liberal the Court has just grown more conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/45 "2010-04-10T19:12:49Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Keep in mind that Sarah Palin is really, really stupid. You overestimate her intelligence by at least two orders of magnitude. > [@DanBlather](#): > > Palin is making progress; at least now she knows North Korea is a separate country. Next up is this whole Virginia/West Virginia controversy. That’s nothing compared to “North” and “South” Dakota. Really, can’t we reduce it all down to, like, five states? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/46 "2010-04-10T19:24:06Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > It’s incredibly telling that many consider John Paul Stevens to be the most liberal of the Supreme Court Justices. He’s a registered Republican and considers himself conservative. He has often said publicly that over these last 30 years he hasn’t grown more liberal the Court has just grown more conservative. Well, that’s a nice sound byte, but doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny. Whatever the shift in the court, his views have grown more “liberal” over the years, especially in the area of Affirmative Action. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/47 "2010-04-10T19:30:47Z")
> [@doubled](#): > > Palin’s re-rebuttal: > [Sarah Palin Wants to Know Where President Obama Got His Nuclear Expertise](http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/04/sarah_palin_wants_to_know_were.html) Oh god, she **is** Bush! Nukular. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/48 "2010-04-10T19:34:22Z")
> [@InterestedObserver](#): > > He is, in reality, a moderate pragmatist, but the right wing has moved so far to the right in recent decades that anyone slightly left of Hitler can be cast as an extreme leftist. Y’know, the more I witness the current idiocy of Republican/conservative politics, politicians, and populace, the more I actually _don’t_ think this is true (the “moving” part, not the “casting” part). That is, it’s not so much that the right has moved more to the radically right (though they have moved somewhat) – it’s that **politics trumps policy**. Thus, one is able to spout invective, inanity, and ignorance as the primary method to achieve power/success. And Sarah set the paradigm. $DEITY help us all if it continues. ---
**Author:** ![doubled](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@doubled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doubled)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/49 "2010-04-10T20:30:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > She also thought that Africa was a country, Actually, that one wasn’t true. While there are many many examples of Sarah Palin running her mouth and saying idiotic things, the “she thought Africa was a country” meme was actually a hoax. Even the New York Times admitted it. > **[Random Jottings: The Africa thing was a hoax...](http://www.randomjottings.net/archives/003631.html)** Still, this doesn’t change the fact that she is still either A) amazingly stupid, or B) willing to say things she knows are clearly un-true in order to score political points. Take your pick. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/50 "2010-04-10T20:32:47Z")
> [@doubled](#): > > Actually, that one wasn’t true. While there are many many examples of Sarah Palin running her mouth and saying idiotic things, the “she thought Africa was a country” meme was actually a hoax. Even the New York Times admitted it. > > [Random Jottings: The Africa thing was a hoax...](http://www.randomjottings.net/archives/003631.html) > > Still, this doesn’t change the fact that she is still either A) amazingly stupid, or B) willing to say things she knows are clearly un-true in order to score political points. Take your pick. I’m right on board with agreeing that SP is font of stupidity. But she raises such ire among many on the left here, that is virtually impossible to have a rational discussion about her on this MB. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/51 "2010-04-10T20:53:06Z")
A progressive naturally seeks to accelerate change, on the presumption that change, for the most part, is a positive good. Of course, any reasonable and intelligent person will agree. But allowances must be made. The rational conservative agrees, yes, of course, change is not only needful, it is inevitable, and since it must happen anyway, let us approach the matter with caution. So that change is not too abrupt and destructive, and so that those who most benefit from the _status quo_ are not tempted to release the hounds. When Lil’ Billy Buckley said he wished to stand athwart of of History/Progress crying “Stop!”, he was being cheeky, I think, because such a stance is not conservative, it is reactionary, and thus intellectually bankrupt. None but a crabby old coot wishes to turn back the clock to a bygone era. (Nothing personal, crabby old coots, but gone is gone…) You may not wish to go forward, but you just can’t go back, so what’s left? The Palin position, if that is not too fine a word for a mish-mash of slogans and slanders, is neither. It is not strictly reactionary, it does not pine for the fjords of Ozzie and Harriet, and it is not really conservative, either. It doesn’t seek to cautiously improve the motion of history and change, it seeks to stop it in its tracks right here, right now, and simply stay as we are, like the cartoon character who screeches to halt with a cloud of smoke rising from his feet. Like Dr Festus and the Memphis Staffer, when he bargained to stop time here, at this moment, this acme of perfection. She assures her people that _they_ need not change, neither forward nor back. They don’t need to concern themselves with optimizing change, as no such change is needful, and they don’t need to go back, because that _too_ is change, and change is suspicious, and fraught with unknown perils. And, of course, that anyone who insists otherwise is likely an intellectual elite wimp, who has never even skinned a neighborhood pet, much less an actual moose! And lacks the good old fashioned common sense native to Real Americans, who already know just as much as they need to, thank you very much! ---
**Author:** ![doubled](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@doubled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doubled)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/52 "2010-04-10T20:58:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m right on board with agreeing that SP is font of stupidity. But she raises such ire among many on the left here, that is virtually impossible to have a rational discussion about her on this MB. ??? If she is (in your words) “a font of stupidity”, and if that opinion is based not merely on “i don’t agree with her” but on objective evidence of analyzing the words she’s saying, then what is left to rationally discuss? If someone repeatedly blathers thing that are _provably_ false, then how can we have a rational discussion that doesn’t end with all sides agreeing “yup, she’s either stupid or lying”? Case in point – her statement that kicked off the OP’s question was: > [@](#): > > You know that’s kinda like getting out there on the playground, a bunch of kids ready to fight and one of the kids saying ‘Go ahead, punch me in the face and I’m not going to retaliate. Go ahead and do what you want to with me.’" > **[President Obama Checked to See If Sarah Palin Was a Nuclear-Issues Expert,...](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2010/04/president_obama_checked_to_see.html)** > > So he really doesn't give a damn what she thinks. But of course nothing, absolutely nothing, in the treaty with Russia, said anything about not retaliating. Just that we wouldn’t retaliate with _nuclear_ weapons (unless the other country also had nuclear weapons, OR unless the other country used biological weapons, OR unless the other country withdrew from the NPT treaty). Her statement just had absolutely nothing to do with reality. How can you have a rational discussion about someone who isn’t rational herself? ---
**Author:** ![doubled](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@doubled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doubled)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/53 "2010-04-10T21:12:51Z")
Anyway, since we’re all in agreement on the OP’s question about the original issue…changing the subject, here is a video of Sarah Palin in the swimsuit competition part of the famous 1984 Miss Alaska beauty pagent. Seriously, not a joke. [http://www.break.com/index/sarah-palin-1984-beauty-pageant.html](http://www.break.com/index/sarah-palin-1984-beauty-pageant.html) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/54 "2010-04-10T21:31:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m right on board with agreeing that SP is font of stupidity. But she raises such ire among many on the left here, that is virtually impossible to have a rational discussion about her on this MB. How are the discussions irrational? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/55 "2010-04-11T09:33:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, that’s a nice sound byte, but doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny. Whatever the shift in the court, his views have grown more “liberal” over the years, especially in the area of Affirmative Action. Sound bite nothing, it speaks volumes about our current political polarity that you cannot have an independent mind and still be conservative. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/56 "2010-04-11T20:36:44Z")
This mornings news programs included a discussion of whether Obama would retaliate if a country used nukes on the US. The Repubs actually pretended that they were convinced he would not, therefore he is some kinda hippy liberal that just isn’t tough enough. This treaty that would make it possible for us to incinerate the world 8 times over instead of 12 has put us at risk. The Repubs are pulling all the stops out . ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/57 "2010-04-11T20:58:51Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > The thing is, it was really stupid of her to question Obama’s credentials on this at this point. It might have made sense to bring that up when he was running against McCain, as he probably didn’t know that much about the subject. > > -XT Actually, Obama has been focussed on nuclear arms reduction for a long time, and teamed up in the Senate with Richard Lugar [to work towards nonproliferation.](http://lugar.senate.gov/press/record.cfm?id=278019) > [@](#): > > Thursday, June 28, 2007 > > WASHINGTON, D.C. – U.S. Senators Barack Obama (D-IL) and Richard Lugar (R-IN) today announced that the Senate Appropriations Committee accepted their request to provide funding to implement the Lugar-Obama nonproliferation initiative. The Appropriations Committee expressed support for the initiative and provided $48 million for Lugar-Obama, $36 million for programs to destroy heavy conventional weapons, $10 million for efforts to intercept weapons and materials of mass destruction, and $2 million for rapid response to proliferation detection and interdiction emergencies. This is the culmination of an 18 month effort to authorize and fund the Lugar-Obama initiative. > > First introduced in November 2005 and enacted in 2007, the Lugar-Obama initiative enhances U.S. efforts to destroy conventional weapons stockpiles and to detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction throughout the world. That, by the way, is a press release from Senator Lugar’s office. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599/58 "2010-04-12T00:40:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It is not strictly reactionary, it does not pine for the fjords of Ozzie and Harriet, and it is not really conservative, either. Nice post, I was set for a 9.5, until I came to this. I mean, did anybody ever truly pine for Harriet’s fjords? Just asking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-score-for-the-obama-palin-nuclear-debate/535599.md?page=2)