# Your Sex Life, Evolution, And the Christian Right-A Theory **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 27, 2005, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850 "2005-08-27T07:14:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/21 "2005-08-28T00:06:09Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > the opposition is rooted in fear and insecurity, the Bible just affords them an excuse to be vociferous about it. So the opposition to homosexuality is ACTUALY coming from joe and jane six-pack, some of whom hapen to use the Bible to argue their point? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/22 "2005-08-28T00:11:57Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > So the opposition to homosexuality is ACTUALY coming from joe and jane six-pack, some of whom hapen to use the Bible to argue their point? Dunno; it may be a cultural inertia sort of thing - and that culture may be fostered by doctrine, but in my experience (and vastly oversimplifying), it’s almost like “ewwwww! gays! that’s so wrong, and God agrees with me” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/23 "2005-08-28T00:23:00Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > So the opposition to homosexuality is ACTUALY coming from joe and jane six-pack, some of whom hapen to use the Bible to argue their point? The bigotry precedes the spurious “Biblical” justifications, if that’s what you mean. And anyone who thinks the Bible has any relevance or authority at all when it comes to _legislation_ needs to reread their constitution. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/24 "2005-08-28T01:12:14Z")
So then the movement to ban gay marraige is actually coming form regular folks who think gay sex is gross. Those that back up that belief with the Bible are then a subset of the greater group. That logic then leads one to believe that it is not the Christians who are against homosexuality, just regular folk, some of whom are Christians. See my point? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/25 "2005-08-28T01:21:05Z")
75% of Americans are Christians. That means that the average moron who thinks that gay marriage is any of his affair also happens to be a Christian and there’s a better than average chance that these morons will ignorantly believe not only that their Bible clearly condemns homosexuality at all (it doesn’t), but even more egregiously, that their Bible has any relevance whatsoever to any conversation about legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/26 "2005-08-28T01:21:34Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > So then the movement to ban gay marraige is actually coming form regular folks who think gay sex is gross. Those that back up that belief with the Bible are then a subset of the greater group. That logic then leads one to believe that it is not the Christians who are against homosexuality, just regular folk, some of whom are Christians. > > See my point? Perhaps; after all, it probably isn’t unusual for people to find the idea of alien sexual practices unsettling, but perhaps not; it may be that the _reason_ people find homosexuality gross is the prevailing culture, which may in turn have been influenced by Christian doctrines or biases; this isn’t at all the same thing as it would be if the religious folk were acting out of pure altruistic concern that moral guidelines were being broken. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/27 "2005-08-28T01:28:05Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > … it probably isn’t unusual for people to find the idea of alien sexual practices unsettling… Rishathra? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/28 "2005-08-28T01:36:52Z")
By the way, the people who are most involved politically in anti-gay legislation tend to be openly religious. The fact that they’ve managed to be so succesful in implementing such an overtly religious agenda shows just how prevalent this kind of mentality is is the populace. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/29 "2005-08-28T02:22:27Z")
I’m with **Stoid**. Only I think the insecurity manifests itself in wanting to find (and fight) issues that define you as a _good_ person and as a _good_ group. The issues themselves, no matter how much bible-waving accompanies them, are picked totally randomly. If the issues were all in the bible, how come some fights are “in” at a given moment in time, whe other fights are “out”? For instance, in the Netherlands the Christian Party believes it is a fundamental fight, one that identifies _them_ as Christians, to prevent Sunday Shopping. That’s right, in the Netherlands all stores are closed on Sunday, (barring fewer then a dozen Shopping Sundays a year in the bigger cities). The Christian parties want to keep it that way, on the grounds, quite rightly in their line of reasoning, that one of the Ten Commandments orders us to “Honour The Sabbath.” This in sharp contrast with the USA, where Sunday is THE day for shopping. (I think the explanation for this is that Sunday shopping is vital to the USA economic system; when you have people working at all hours, they have to be able to shop at all hours (or the other way around, I’m not sure 🙂 ). But still, it has always struck me as odd that Christian fundies in the USA don’t even think twice about breaking one of the ten Commandments [(there are several versions)](http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10c4.htm) (I wonder if they enge realise it at all) but go berserk when it comes to inconclusively condemned things like homosexuality. The same thing goes for eating blood, for instance bloodsausage; [absolutely positively condemned in several Bible-texts.](http://www.ajwrb.org/bible/mosaic.shtml) Do Christians heed it? No sirree! (Although [this site](http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/cults/rajwd/rajwd03.html) this site has found, unsurprisingly in that Book of Contradictions) some coutnerargumetns in the bible)The fight about blood-sausage-eaters is “out” and fighting gay marriage is “in”, at least in the USA. So, all a matter of getting an clear-cut, ready-to-wear-identity. IMHO, the fear of finding your own ethics is both a fear of being “bad” and being outside the group. (Which, again, has far more severe, economic consequences in the USA, then it wold in the Netherlands, because in the USA Church groups have taken the place that in the Neherlands is taken by Social Security) Christians are not alone in this; The Left-Wing Church has much the same characteristics. A true leftie fundie monitored everyones choice of food, politics, and transport. Everybody had to boycot South African oranges, embrace Cuban sugar; think of hungry Africa; stop eating meat; stop flying, stop driving, etc. I’m not saying that those issues are not laudable in themselves; just that many people, IMHO, used them to get an “identity”. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/30 "2005-08-28T02:48:42Z")
Very interesting story, **Maastricht**. The speed with which the issues (and stances) change can make your head spin: My first paid gig as a musician was disrupted when the department store whose Christmas party we played at had its manager arrested because he had dared to stay open on Sundays during the heavy-shopping season. (A local preacher accompanied the arresting officers). This was in 1977 in West Virginia. Today, the stores are definitely open in WV on Sunday (although FWIW, you can’t buy hard liquor in my hometown). ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/31 "2005-08-28T03:19:48Z")
Clarification: you still can’t buy hard liquor on a Sunday in my WV hometown. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@The\_Hook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hook)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/32 "2005-08-28T03:21:17Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > I teach High School age Sunday School at my (Southern Baptist) church and am very active as a youth leader. Do I make it clear to them that its best to wait to have sex until marriage? Yes. Do I beat them up when I find out they have done it? No. We have had teen pregnancies and we have rallied to the aid of the young mother. Would she have been in a better circumstance if she had heeded the abstinance message? Certainly. > > We have homosexual teens in our youth group. Big deal. No one cares. No one cares? Here’s a(n honest) question: what do you teach your gay students about sex? Wait until marriage? Whoops… ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/33 "2005-08-28T03:24:52Z")
Re: **Stoid** and the _fear_ theory — There _is_ a theological thread in the weave of Christian thinking that runs something like this: “There is a right, correct, God-ordained way for us to live as people. We don’t always live in accordance with the ideals, but the forces of good — the Church in particular — manages to maintain the devotion to the ideals themselves, _and it’s a good thing because if that were ever lost, there would be no getting it back_, there would come chaos and the decay of all that is ever good or could ever be good. There is no urge towards social order or the embracing of good things in people because people are flawed. Social order must be imposed, and the notions of same protected against heresies, impurities, and corruption; and that which is good has been codified and the codification must reign over any fallible sentiments about what seems good lest we lose the definition thereof and blunder about, each person having their own ridiculous ideas as to what is good and what is not, and no guide or shepherd to keep them on the correct path.” It’s a damn silly and weak and fearful idea, but it does indeed permeate our culture’s long-term thinking about morality, social order, and the ability of people to perceive things independent of what has been handed down to them! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/34 "2005-08-28T03:31:10Z")
> [@The Hook](#): > > No one cares? Here’s a(n honest) question: what do you teach your gay students about sex? Wait until marriage? > > Whoops… I’d like to second this question. When do you tell gay people it’s ok to have sex? I’d also like to know if you provide kids with information about birth control, safe sex, emergency contraception and abortion or does your advice stop at “don’t do it?” One more thing…you say “wait until marriage,” to teenagers, but what would you say to grown ups? If a couple is in their forties would you tell them they had to be married? ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/35 "2005-08-28T03:48:12Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > 75% of Americans are Christians. That means that the average moron who thinks that gay marriage is any of his affair also happens to be a Christian and there’s a better than average chance that these morons will ignorantly believe not only that their Bible clearly condemns homosexuality at all (it doesn’t), but even more egregiously, that their Bible has any relevance whatsoever to any conversation about legislation. Then if Christianity is so powerful and at the same time, so misguided, why isn’t this land the theocracy that many on this board seem to fear? Could it be… just maybe that the self proclaimed Christians aren’t quite the homogenous group and power that everyone likes to speak about? Could it be that there are pro choice, civil right loving Christians out there? If so, what does that say about the OP’s argument that the “Christian Right” is out to get everything evil in the world abolished to the dark pits of hell. Bottom line, way too many generalizations in this and most other threads when it comes to what Christians do and believe. Not unlike the “Are Republicans just Dumb” thread from a while back. Gross generalizations get us nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/36 "2005-08-28T04:43:18Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > why isn’t this land the theocracy that many on this board seem to fear? As i assume you are fully aware, the march is on towards that very thing. Hence our distress. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/37 "2005-08-28T04:52:57Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Then if Christianity is so powerful and at the same time, so misguided, why isn’t this land the theocracy that many on this board seem to fear? Because of the 1st Amendment. Thank God. Not that it stops a lot of people frying _trying_ to legislate theocratically. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/38 "2005-08-28T05:17:34Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > As i assume you are fully aware, the march is on towards that very thing. Hence our distress. I’ll ask again. What march? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/39 "2005-08-28T05:45:34Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > One dumbass Senator in PA or a few activists in TX, do not make significant numbers now do they? Everyone likes to lump Christianity into one nostril flaring, fire and brimstone preaching, fag hating, bunch. If you think that 224,000,000 people in US are of one mind and set of ideals you are kidding yourselves. Now you know how Muslims in the West feel nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/40 "2005-08-28T05:49:01Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Now you know how Muslims in the West feel nowadays. Not really. Only some on this board and similar haunts try to tie all 75% of US citizens with Rick Santorum and Fred Phelps. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850.md?page=3)