# Your Sex Life, Evolution, And the Christian Right-A Theory **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 27, 2005, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850 "2005-08-27T07:14:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/61 "2005-08-29T14:46:39Z")
Those few seem to have a lot of political power. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/62 "2005-08-29T15:07:14Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Those few seem to have a lot of political power. I agree. Pat Robertson could motivate 1000s to give money or go to the polls. Frig- Freg Phelps has more influence than me. But that brings me back to the premise that everyday Christians are quietly doing good works, and not consolidating power. I have a feeling that if these guys could attain more power by creating a coalition of gerbil herders, they would replace the cross with a hamster wheel today. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/63 "2005-08-29T15:08:25Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Those few seem to have a lot of political power. And weren’t first century jews waiting for a political/military messiah? I think they were suprised when Jesus came and said basicly just to love everyone. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@The\_Hook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hook)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/64 "2005-08-29T16:28:51Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > You said the few you _never_ see on TV. > > I submit that there are millions of us reasonable and loving Christians you never see on TV. > > The problem is many non-Christians define us by the _FEW_ they see on TV. > > I am one of the many, not one of the few. It was a jab at the media. You said it yourself: the loonies get more airtime. Therefore, anyone reasonable would be part of a minority in television, but the thing is, you never get to see them on the air. So, instead of saying “one of the few (in the realm of television) you ever see”, I opted for “one of the few you never see”. I like playing with words. It’s just that when I do it it comes off as clever as playing with food. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/65 "2005-08-30T11:45:45Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Not to mention the fact that “creators” are universally female - it’s truly bizarre that THE Creator would EVER be thought of as male. Tosh. Dudes make stuff, chicks birth stuff. It astonishes me that anyone would ever worship a goddess who was basically a giant uterus and vagina. Where’s the artistry? The reproductive tract just insensibly fulfils its purpose; there’s no _creativity_ in it. (Underlined phrase emphasised to draw attention to **Stoid** ’s astonishing hubris in thinking that anyone who disagrees with him is holding a _truly bizarre_ view.) Odd thought: all goddess worship is founded on manipulation of men (don’t titter!), either with the hope of gettin’ some pussy or a the fear of a slapping from Mom. Meanwhile: **Polycarp** , weird as rishathra may be, it’s mainstream next to that three-in-a-bed action the Pierson’s Puppeteers get off on. :eek: Any incoherence in this post is apologised for in advance. Although the Immodium has kicked in, I’m not firing on all six today by any means. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/66 "2005-08-31T09:23:38Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > There is a girl in my youth group (let’s call her Sandy) who came to me at a retreat and asked if she could confide some things to me. She just turned 15 and has been having sex with a lot of guys. She said none of them love her and she knows now she was just used by them all. The sex that made her feel good actually left her feeling abandoned and dirty. I agree that a 14 or 15 year old isn’t ready for sex and that if she’s looking for love by giving her body to a bunch of boys, that this would cause additional emotional stress. But the problem I have is with the concept of “dirty.” I’m not saying you personally called it dirty, but that is the underlying – or explicit message – of many if not most Christian churches. This, I believe, adds complexity to the already difficult mixture of adolescence and sex drive. By calling it a sin against God, most Christian churches also throw in shame, causing further emotional stress. Not only do these kids have to deal with their hormones, they must also feel guilt and shame that they are violating their God’s will. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/67 "2005-08-31T11:52:46Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > I agree that a 14 or 15 year old isn’t ready for sex and that if she’s looking for love by giving her body to a bunch of boys, that this would cause additional emotional stress. But the problem I have is with the concept of “dirty.” I’m not saying you personally called it dirty, but that is the underlying – or explicit message – of many if not most Christian churches. This, I believe, adds complexity to the already difficult mixture of adolescence and sex drive. By calling it a sin against God, most Christian churches also throw in shame, causing further emotional stress. Not only do these kids have to deal with their hormones, they must also feel guilt and shame that they are violating their God’s will. Have you attended “most” Christian churches"? We don’t talk about sex nearly as much as you think we do. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/68 "2005-09-01T02:54:33Z")
Does the Southern Baptist church \*not \* consider premerital sex a sin? Do “most” Christian churches not? ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/69 "2005-09-01T03:02:23Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > It is not the mission of my Presbyterian church to make a name for ouselves in the national spotlight, or even at the state level. We accept everyone regardless of their race, the car they drive, who they sleep with, IF they sleep with anyone, etc. At the local level we donate 1000’s of hours and 1000’s of dollars to local causes because we can. We don’t get involved in politics because that is not our job or calling. Then don’t complain when outsiders assume that your church shares the attitudes of the spiteful, attention-hogging, self-appointed representatives of Christianity clamoring for the spotlight. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/70 "2005-09-01T03:24:57Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > Then don’t complain when outsiders assume that your church shares the attitudes of the spiteful, attention-hogging, self-appointed representatives of Christianity clamoring for the spotlight. Actually, please _do_ complain. Loudly, in public, in print, on TV, and anywhere else you can think of. Get the message out there that Falwell and his ilk don’t speak for mainstream Christianity, and maybe the pols will stop pandering to them. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/71 "2005-09-01T03:56:43Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Tosh. Dudes make stuff, chicks birth stuff. It astonishes me that anyone would ever worship a goddess who was basically a giant uterus and vagina. Where’s the artistry? The reproductive tract just insensibly fulfils its purpose; there’s no _creativity_ in it. > > (snip) > > Odd thought: all goddess worship is founded on manipulation of men (don’t titter!), either with the hope of gettin’ some pussy or a the fear of a slapping from Mom. I’m not sure I understand that. And I’m not sure I want to. Manipulation of men? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/72 "2005-09-01T10:20:45Z")
> [@Snakescatlady](#): > > I’m not sure I understand that. And I’m not sure I want to. Manipulation of men? Hiya Snakes. First of all see the apology above; I was running a bit of a temperature at the time. I was trying to say that goddess-worship didn’t bring much to the theological table other than: “Worship the mighty Womb, that it may deign to bring forth life!” or “Worship the mighty Vagina, that you may get some if you’re good” or “Worship the mighty Mother, or she’ll slap you the way your earthly Mother did when you were still running around bare-arsed” all of which is generally aimed at getting men to knuckle under to the goddess, the priestesses, and women in general, by making men aware of their second-class citizen status either for not being able to give birth, or being helpless to resist the lure of the old pussy, or for once having been smaller and weaker than their custodial parent. It was just an odd thought and not a hugely developed argument. Make of if what you please. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/73 "2005-09-01T15:53:20Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > Does the Southern Baptist church \*not \* consider premerital sex a sin? Do “most” Christian churches not? Yes. And so does the Presdbyterian Church, the Roma Catholic Church, Islam, Reform Jews…I don’t see the point you are trying to make. Adolescence IS a difficult time, rife with hormones and a societal pressure to indulge in every pleasure. There is no way we are going to make those years easy or uncomplicated. We do however feel that when dealing with sexual issues as a teen, HAVING sex will only add to the confusion and potential for terrible consequences. We feel that making a decision to not have sex actually simplifies things. I hope they have fulfilling sex lives full of love and intimacy when they are ready. Itwould be nice if they waited until marriage, but I am a realist. Should they feel guilt? Sometimes guilt may be the one thing that keeps you in line. If they profess to be Christians, and they are not living their lives according to the tenets therein, I suppose there will be guilt. We could avoid the guilt by saying, “Have sex if you want, God doesn’t care really.” But I think that would be a) untrue and b) dangerous and c) not in keeping with our beliefs. All of that said, Christians are called upon to love others unconditionally and are not called to berate or belittle anyone even if they go against what we belive. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/74 "2005-09-02T01:04:38Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > I agree that a 14 or 15 year old isn’t ready for sex . . . You know, as a historian, I had to be slightly amused by this comment. 150 years ago, a female of fourteen or fifteen would have been considered quite ready for sex. It wasn’t common, but not unheard of for girls as young as thirteen to marry and have children. She would have been considered ready to run a household, manage servants (or do all of the myriad, backbreaking chores herself) and raise her children. Boys of that age worked like men, and had the same responsibilites as adults. People of that time would see our customs as a bizarre, artifical extention of childhood. (Please note that I am not passing any judgements on either present customs or past.) ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/75 "2005-09-02T19:14:00Z")
Up to the minute proof that the Justice Department, according to \*\* law enforcemnet professionals themselves, \*\* (who are largely, it seems, as disgusted and fed up as I am) is in fact making prosecution of obscenity as high or higher a priority than addressing violent crimes, including [terrorism](http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1125318960389) : > [@](#): > > _Originally in Daily Business Review_ \*\* > > When FBI supervisors in Miami met with new interim U.S. Attorney Alex Acosta last month, they wondered what the top enforcement priority for Acosta and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales would be. > > Would it be terrorism? Organized crime? Narcotics trafficking? Immigration? Or maybe public corruption? > > The agents were stunned to learn that a top prosecutorial priority of Acosta and the Department of Justice was none of the above. Instead, Acosta told them, it’s obscenity. Not pornography involving children, but pornographic material featuring consenting adults. > > Acosta’s stated goal of prosecuting distributors of adult porn has angered federal and local law enforcement officials, as well as prosecutors in his own office. They say there are far more important issues in a high-crime area like South Florida, which is an international hub at risk for terrorism , money laundering and other dangerous activities. > > … > > Sources say Acosta was told by the FBI officials during last month’s meeting that obscenity prosecution would have to be handled by the crimes against children unit. But that unit is already overworked and would have to take agents off cases of child endangerment to work on adult porn cases. Acosta replied that this was Attorney General Gonzales’ mandate. > > Acosta’s meetings with other law enforcement agencies also were not particularly fruitful, sources said. > > Criminal defense attorneys and an American Civil Liberties Union spokeswoman say they are appalled at the Justice Department’s plan to prioritize the prosecution of obscenity when narcotics trafficking, public corruption, and fraud are rampant in South Florida. > > Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, a spokeswoman for the American Civil Liberties Union and a partner at Duane Morris in Miami, said, “It’s amazing that we’re wasting our resources on the morality police instead of battling organized crime, illegal drugs, corruption and undocumented immigration. I can’t even believe this.” \*\* Sickening. Infuriating. Fucking tragic. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/76 "2005-09-02T19:52:16Z")
OK I read your article and this Acosta character seems like a wacko. But nowhere in the article does it say he is a Christian. Maybe the letters written by the Christian anti-porn group mentioned have had some effect, but I do n’t make that connection. But let me go back to another point in your OP. In the closing you say > [@](#): > > It’s all about protecting what is inarguably a very fragile belief system to begin with. Please elaborate on how the Christian belief system is “inarguably frail”. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/77 "2005-09-02T19:53:29Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > OK I read your article and this Acosta character seems like a wacko. But nowhere in the article does it say he is a Christian. Maybe the letters written by the Christian anti-porn group mentioned have had some effect, but I do n’t make that connection. > > But let me go back to another point in your OP. In the closing you say > > Please elaborate on how the Christian belief system is “inarguably frail”. I mean fragile… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/78 "2005-09-03T18:20:43Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > Please elaborate on how the Christian belief system is “inarguably frail”. All supernatural religious beliefs are inherently fragile, (Anything the mind can conceive can be argued, I suppose, even the existence of Leprechauns, so if you insist I will concede that modification of my statement.) because they demand the suspension of reason and science. Being the insatiably curious and intelligent creatures that we are by nature, that is a tall order, given the complete and utter lack of evidence that exists to support such beliefs. Further, I have observed in my life, as I’m sure you have in yours, that the things which people are most defensive about are things that they are not really sure of. Where there is real confidence, there is no need to be defensive. The thing speaks for itself. So the fact that the religious (Christians and Muslims particularly) are so defensive about their respective beliefs screams insecurity, hence fragility. And since I was referring specifically to the BELIEFS, let me say this as well: it is my belief, based not on faith, also not on any scientific studies or surveys, but based on empirical observation, that if you could peer into the hearts of the religious of the world, you would find plenty of doubt in the vast majority. It’s really hard to be intelligent and educated, live in the developed world of 2005, and swallow completely everything that most theistic belief systems ask you to. The fact that so many people end up being religious anyway is a testament to the power of fear. Better to\* try \* and believe\* something\* than face the terror of death head on. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/79 "2005-09-03T23:45:55Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > All supernatural religious beliefs are inherently fragile, > … And since I was referring specifically to the BELIEFS, let me say this as well: it is my **belief** , based not on faith, also not on any scientific studies or surveys, but based on empirical observation, that if you could peer into the hearts of the religious of the world, you would find plenty of doubt in the vast majority. It’s really hard to be intelligent and educated, live in the developed world of 2005, and swallow completely everything that most theistic belief systems ask you to. > > … BOLDING MINE So beliefs in something outside of the natural world (supernatural as you say) are fragile, yet we are supposed to find inherant truth in your beliefs built on your tiny bit of experience in this vast world…interesting. And seeing that none of us have ANY experience after death, whatever you believe about it has no more “scientific” certainty than mine. It is your BELIEF of what happens outside of this life, or, the supernatural. Yet you posit your theory and call it “inarguable”. Tell me about the fragility of the 1000s who have died for their faith as martyrs. I myself believe that God is love and that I receive his love freely and offer it freely. I would never deny my faith, at gunpoint or under any threat. It in a strong faith, and I would gladly lay my life down for another, as there is no greater love, per Jesus. How about the girl killed at Columbine, Cassie Bernall. She was asked by her killer, “Do you believe in God?” “Yes, I believe in God,” she said. “Why?” the gunman asked. But he did not wait for an answer. He shot Cassie Bernall dead. How weak was her faith? And I don’t swallow everything Christianity asks me too. Jonah and the whale? Noah and the ark? All of that stuff may or may not be true. I think personally it is allegorical tales trying to make sense of God and the early Hebrew relationship with Him. I don’t think that is what matters. Its the love thing, man. That’s what matters. Does that mean I am not intelligent and educated? Meh- I don’t care if it does. I think what you have illustrated is **your** inability to experience anything beoyond the empirical. Perhaps it is your fear that will not allow you to believe in something bigger than yourself. I dunno really. But you have not illustrated how my faith or beliefs, or that of anyone else, is fragile. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850/80 "2005-09-04T02:49:00Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > How about the girl killed at Columbine, Cassie Bernall. She was asked by her killer, “Do you believe in God?” “Yes, I believe in God,” she said. “Why?” the gunman asked. But he did not wait for an answer. He shot Cassie Bernall dead. How weak was her faith? Nobody knows… they told her ‘Peek-a-boo’. > **[Columbine High School massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre)** > > The Columbine High School massacre was a school shooting and attempted bombing that occurred on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School in Columbine, Colorado, United States.\[a\] The perpetrators, twelfth grade (senior) students Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, murdered 12 students and one teacher. Ten students were killed in the school library, where the pair subsequently committed suicide. Twenty-one additional people were injured by gunshots, and gunfire was also exchanged with the police. A... > **[FACT CHECK: Darrell Scott's Testimony on the Columbine Shooting](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/darrell-scott-testimony/)** > > A statement offered to a congressional subcommittee by Darrell Scott, the father of one of the Columbine school shooting victims, has resonated online for nearly two decades. (Apparently, this man’s son made up the story) [http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/30/bernall/print.html](http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/30/bernall/print.html) Or transferred it. Looks like the person who it was actually about was going ‘Oh, god’, and… the gunman let her live. Huh. So… story’s completely turned around. Have a nice day! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-sex-life-evolution-and-the-christian-right-a-theory/318850.md?page=5)