# Your theories for Harry Potter Book 7 (spoilers, obviously) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000 "2007-04-28T22:45:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2007, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/221 "2007-07-10T23:24:31Z")
they flew into the whopping willow. it is on school grounds. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2007, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/222 "2007-07-10T23:31:20Z")
Eureka! I have it! Here it is, the answer you’ve been waiting for. Three questions answered simultaneously: a. Why does Dumbledore trust Snape? b. Why did Dumbledore have James’ invisibility cloak in his possession when Dumbledore doesn’t need a cloak to become invisible? c. Whose side is Snape on? Snape went to warn the Potters, but was too late — as he was there, Lord Voldemort arrived. James lent Snape his Invisibility Cloak. Snape witnessed the murder of the Potters, hidden by the Cloak, and saw Voldemort’s spell rebound from Harry. Afterward, Snape (wearing the cloak) rushes Harry into Dumbledore’s arms, returning the cloak. The objections to this theory, unfortunately, are formidable. Objection #1: If the Potters were protected by the Fidelius charm, how could Snape have gone to warn them? Answer: he must have heard the Secret-Keeper, Peter Pettigrew, mention it to Voldemort. Then he, Snape, could have been allowed to “know” their location, but (not being the Secret-Keeper himself) could not relay their location to Dumbledore. Objection #2: Mad-Eye Moody can see right through Invisibility Cloaks. Dumbledore may be able to as well (but he may have simply been guessing). Why can’t Voldemort? Answer: I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/223 "2007-07-10T23:45:20Z")
If Harry lives, I expect lots of T-shirts and bumper stickers that say “Harry Lives!” Hey, it doesn’t make any less sense than “Frodo Lives!” did. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2007, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/224 "2007-07-10T23:47:38Z")
[QUOTE=ENugent] How about Harry and Ron flying in with the car in book 2? [/QUOTE] Didn’t they roughly follow the train line? I would imagine that there is a gap or that the barriers are lowered on opening day so the students can arrive. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/225 "2007-07-11T03:41:59Z")
[QUOTE=Hung Mung] I always thought he did it to, A) subtly appeal to his human nature and keep him in his place, or B) to piss him off. Probably a bit of both. [/QUOTE] Well, that too. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/226 "2007-07-11T04:13:51Z")
IIRC (no guarantee), Hogwarts is guarded not against _flying_, but _apparating_. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/227 "2007-07-11T06:00:35Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] Eureka! I have it! Here it is, the answer you’ve been waiting for. Three questions answered simultaneously: a. Why does Dumbledore trust Snape? b. Why did Dumbledore have James’ invisibility cloak in his possession when Dumbledore doesn’t need a cloak to become invisible? c. Whose side is Snape on? Snape went to warn the Potters, but was too late — as he was there, Lord Voldemort arrived. James lent Snape his Invisibility Cloak. Snape witnessed the murder of the Potters, hidden by the Cloak, and saw Voldemort’s spell rebound from Harry. Afterward, Snape (wearing the cloak) rushes Harry into Dumbledore’s arms, returning the cloak. The objections to this theory, unfortunately, are formidable. Objection #1: If the Potters were protected by the Fidelius charm, how could Snape have gone to warn them? Answer: he must have heard the Secret-Keeper, Peter Pettigrew, mention it to Voldemort. Then he, Snape, could have been allowed to “know” their location, but (not being the Secret-Keeper himself) could not relay their location to Dumbledore. Objection #2: Mad-Eye Moody can see right through Invisibility Cloaks. Dumbledore may be able to as well (but he may have simply been guessing). Why can’t Voldemort? Answer: I dunno. [/QUOTE] Objection #3: Dumbledore told the Wizengamot (in _GoF_) that Snape had become a spy [for the Order of the Phoenix] well in advance of Voldemort’s downfall. Objection #4: If Snape rushed Harry into Dumbledore’s arms, why did Dumbledore then place Harry back in the ruins of the house for Hagrid to find several hours later? Not an objection, but an interesting question (or two): If Peter Pettigrew was the Secret Keeper, how did Minerva McGonnagall know that Lily and James were in Godric’s Hollow? More to the point, if only the Secret Keeper is allowed to speak the name of the place, how is McGonnagall able to do so? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/228 "2007-07-11T06:07:13Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] Didn’t they roughly follow the train line? I would imagine that there is a gap or that the barriers are lowered on opening day so the students can arrive. [/QUOTE] It should be noted that the Hogwarts Express does not have its terminus on the grounds of Hogwarts, but in the village of Hogsmeade. Anyway, I had the idea that the anti-flying-over-the-walls measure was instituted at about the same time the Order of the Phoenix was recalled to active duty. This allows the Anglia to complete its journey in _CoS_. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/229 "2007-07-11T06:11:16Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Hung Mung** > I always thought he did it to, A) subtly appeal to his human nature and keep him in his place, or B) to piss him off. Probably a bit of both. Well, that too. [/QUOTE] That’s why I feel that in their Final Confrontation, Harry is going to have to call Voldemort “Tom”. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/230 "2007-07-11T08:33:02Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Objection #4: If Snape rushed Harry into Dumbledore’s arms, why did Dumbledore then place Harry back in the ruins of the house for Hagrid to find several hours later? [/quote] For that matter, how did **Hagrid** go there? Only Pettigrew could have known where it was! This suggests that: a. Harry himself wasn’t under the Fidelius Charm, having just been born. After his parents died, anybody could go to the house, and speak its name, or b. Harry was under the Fidelius Charm at that location, but the Secret-Keeper (Pettigrew) told Hagrid and Mrs. Cat\* how to get there. - I can never remember how to spell McGonagall. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/231 "2007-07-11T09:55:17Z")
Yanno, if someone wanted to make some money and had time on their hands, they would scour the web for all these HP7 predictions (get permission and stuff) and make a little time waster book for all the fans. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/232 "2007-07-11T11:59:05Z")
[QUOTE=tim314] Let me add my voice to those who think: [ul][li] Snape is working against Voldemort[/li][li] Snape loved Lily Evans[/ul]The strongest evidence comes from a conversation between Dumbledore and Harry in _Half-Blood Prince_. After Harry found out from Trelaney that it was Snape who overheard the prophecy, he stormed into Dumbledore’s office demanding to know how Dumbledore could employ the man who had caused Voldemort to murder Harry’s parents. Dumbledore told Harry the following:[/li]1) At the time Snape didn’t know to whom the prophecy referred (i.e., that it would lead to Voldemort targeting James and Lily) 2) Once he saw the result, Snape greatly regretted telling Voldemort. I believe Dumbledore speculates that this might be Snape’s _greatest regret_. It’s possible Dumbledore is mistaken, but at the very least it is clear that Dumbledore _believes_ that Snape loved Lily. What other explanation for his words could there possibly be? Snape has repeatedly expressed his hatred for James, so James’ death would not have bothered him [/quote] But I think part of the point of Snape’s character is to teach the readers (I read the series as didactic, I do not mean this as a criticism) that personal feelings about a person do not have to bleed over into questions of wider loyalties–and that it’s a serious, dangerous mistake to be confused on this point. Snape hates Harry, and hates James, on a personal level–but he is (I believe) wholeheartedly loyal to the cause he shares with them. James’ and Lily’s death would upset him, if for no other reason, simply because their death was such a great victory for Voldemort. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/233 "2007-07-11T17:36:59Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] But I think part of the point of Snape’s character is to teach the readers (I read the series as didactic, I do not mean this as a criticism) that personal feelings about a person do not have to bleed over into questions of wider loyalties–and that it’s a serious, dangerous mistake to be confused on this point. [/quote] I fully agree with this. > [@](#): > > Snape hates Harry, and hates James, on a personal level–but he is (I believe) wholeheartedly loyal to the cause he shares with them. James’ and Lily’s death would upset him, if for no other reason, simply because their death was such a great victory for Voldemort. I’d agree that Snape _now_ might regret helping Voldemort simply because he opposes Voldemort. _However_, at some point Snape was genuinely loyal to Voldemort. Nevertheless he regretted telling him the prophecy enough that (according to Dumbledore) this _caused_ him to turn against Voldemort. I’ve found the relevant passage: > [@Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince](#): > > But he did not know – he had no possible way of knowing – which boy Voldemort would hunt from then onward, or that the parents he would destroy in his murderous quest were people that Professor Snape knew, that they were your mother and father --" > > Harry let out a yell of mirthless laughter. > > “He hated my dad like he hated Sirius! Haven’t you noticed, Professor, how the people Snape hates tend to end up dead?” > > **“You have no idea of the remorse Professor Snape felt when he realized how Lord Voldemort had interpreted the prophecy, Harry. I believe it to be the greatest regret of his life and the reason that he returned --”** > > “But he’s a very good Occlumens, isn’t he, sir?” said Harry, whose voice was shaking with the effort of keeping it steady. "And isn’t Voldemort convinced that Snape’s on his side, even now? Professor…how can you be sure Snape’s on our side? > > Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely. (bolding mine) Even though he’s cut off, it’s clear where the sentence I bolded is going. Dumbledore _says_ Snape returned [to the right side] (i.e., turned against Voldemort) _because_ he regretted that telling Voldemort the prophecy led to James and Lily’s death. Why would Dumbledore believe this unless he also believes (rightly or wrongly) that Snape cared deeply for Lily? ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/234 "2007-07-11T17:40:16Z")
[QUOTE=Shirley Ujest] Yanno, if someone wanted to make some money and had time on their hands, they would scour the web for all these HP7 predictions (get permission and stuff) and make a little time waster book for all the fans. [/QUOTE] You mean like [this one](http://www.amazon.com/Mugglenet-Coms-What-Happen-Harry-Potter/dp/1569755833/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-0280502-7493554?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184175532&sr=8-1)? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/235 "2007-07-11T17:44:18Z")
[QUOTE=tim314] Even though he’s cut off, it’s clear where the sentence I bolded is going. Dumbledore _says_ Snape returned [to the right side] (i.e., turned against Voldemort) _because_ he regretted that telling Voldemort the prophecy led to James and Lily’s death. Why would Dumbledore believe this unless he also believes (rightly or wrongly) that Snape cared deeply for Lily? [/QUOTE] You’re right! I forgot about the timing of all of this. Sorry. :smack: -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![FaerieBeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/236 "2007-07-11T18:21:45Z")
My apologies if [this](http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-trumanl01.shtml) link has been pasted before in this thread (I’m multitasking, so I can’t keep up. I’m lame). If any of the suspicions in the article I linked prove to be even close to true, I’d flip. Specifically, I thought of this article when I saw this comment: [QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Not an objection, but an interesting question (or two): If Peter Pettigrew was the Secret Keeper, **how did Minerva McGonnagall know that Lily and James were in Godric’s Hollow? More to the point, if only the Secret Keeper is allowed to speak the name of the place, how is McGonnagall able to do so?** [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/237 "2007-07-11T19:18:22Z")
FTR, the UK children’s edition has an interesting picture - Harry, Ron, and Hermione apparently swimming in a pool of treasure. There is the arm of what may be a house elf on Harry’s shoulder, and it is wielding Godric Griffindor’s sword. > **[Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_and_the_Deathly_Hallows)** > > Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows is a fantasy novel written by British author J. K. Rowling and the seventh and final novel in the Harry Potter series. It was released on 21 July 2007 in the United Kingdom by Bloomsbury Publishing, in the United States by Scholastic, and in Canada by Raincoast Books. The novel chronicles the events directly following Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (2005) and the final confrontation between the wizards Harry Potter and Lord Voldemort. > Deathly Hall... Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/238 "2007-07-11T19:34:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Not an objection, but an interesting question (or two): If Peter Pettigrew was the Secret Keeper, how did Minerva McGonnagall know that Lily and James were in Godric’s Hollow? More to the point, if only the Secret Keeper is allowed to speak the name of the place, how is McGonnagall able to do so? Godric’s Hollow was the Potters’ home, not necessarily their hiding place. On top of that, it was the name of their village or neighborhood, not a specific address - perhaps their hiding place was in another location in Godric’s Hollow, albeit not their home. ---
**Author:** ![miamouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@miamouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miamouse)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/239 "2007-07-11T20:53:46Z")
[time line of james and lily’s death](http://www.hp-lexicon.org/timelines/essays/timeline_potters.html) This might be helpful ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/240 "2007-07-11T21:29:56Z")
[QUOTE=miamouse] [time line of james and lily’s death](http://www.hp-lexicon.org/timelines/essays/timeline_potters.html) This might be helpful [/QUOTE] Awesome link. I’ve just found my timewaster du jour, possibly, the week. **Regarding the UK HP7 book cover** : It looks like Hermione is holding the sword and they are in a treasure of some sort. I gots nothing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000.md?page=13)