# Your theories for Harry Potter Book 7 (spoilers, obviously) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000 "2007-04-28T22:45:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/81 "2007-05-01T18:01:16Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] There is a specific reference to one of them “flinging killing curses willy-nilly”. And while other curses can be lethal (_sectumsempra_, probably, if left untreated, and too many stunners can do in someone with a weak heart), _Avada Kedavra_ is the only one that’s referred to as “the killing curse”. [/QUOTE] Maybe we have different editions? [QUOTE=page 599 of HBP, harcover, American edition] "Beyond [Ron, McGonagall and Lupin], Harry saw Tonks fighting an enormous blond wizard who was sending curses flying in all directions, so that they ricocheted off the walls around them, cracking stone, shattering the nearest window – “Harry, where did you come from?” Ginny cried, but there was no time to answer her. He put his head down and sprinted forward, narrowly avoiding a blast that erupted over his head, showering them all in bits of wall. [/QUOTE] Please, don’t think I’m picking on you - yesterday I had a vague feeling that other curses caused structural damage when they missed, but I couldn’t remember specific examples. Reading this this morning it was on my mind, and I went, “hey!” Granted, it’s not as good as a quoted curse and subsequent mayhem, but generally if someone’s using Avada Kedavra, it’s a big deal and mentioned specifically, so I feel pretty confident assuming the blond wizard was doing other curses. Could be wrong, of course. If I find another specifically quoted curse breaking stone, I’ll let you know. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/82 "2007-05-01T19:47:18Z")
Add me to the SS+LE=GULA (greasy unrequited love always) team. Not only does this explain why Dumbledore trusted Snape, but also why Voldemort does. Think about it: Snape goes to LV and tells him what he knows of the prophecy, and when they decide it’s Harry, he says: Snape: My Lord, I beg you to spare Lily and only kill the boy. You must spare Lily! Voldemort _aside_: The hell? Rookwood: Snape’s got it bad for Lily, V-Dawg. Voldemort: Okay, really, I’m not going to tell you again. Don’t call me that. It’s disrespectful. Rookwood _Makes V with two fingers and hits self in chest, then turns his palms up and bows his head_. Well, anyway, Voldemort kills Lily anyway, and that turns out to be his downfall. If he’d only listened to Snape, Harry would have been dead and Voldemort would have ruled the Earth. It would make for a more dramatic and satisfying justification for his change of heart. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/83 "2007-05-01T20:05:44Z")
I think we can be sure Neville will have a much bigger part in the final one and I’d wondered about the gum wrappers also. Could they be something akin to a Marauders’ Map? Who retrieved Harry when his parents were killed (i.e. picked him up from his crib in the house where he was murdered and delivered him to Dumbledore)? I assumed it was Hagrid, but does the book say that? Also, were James and Lily living in a wizarding community or in a Muggle community? As memory serves Rowling did say that Harry’s visit to where his parents died will have a significant find. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/84 "2007-05-01T20:07:59Z")
Can anyone recommend the best/most detailed synopses of the series, incidentally? I want to freshen up but I don’t really want to take the time to re-read all 6 books before Hallows comes out. (Forgot to mention above, incidentally- I think that’s a really good call on the Halloween/Veil and if she’s not using it she should 😉 - Harry’s parents, Molly’s brothers, Dumbledore, Diggory, etc., great chance for them all to make cameos.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/85 "2007-05-01T20:17:55Z")
One of those lightning strikes that hits you on the can or just before sleep misfired and hit me when I was going through the grocery store parking lot. Rowling’s made a lot – or Dumble has, at least – about the importance of lifedebts, that showing mercy puts that person into your service. James Potter saved Snape’s life. Snape turned around and, a few years later, got James killed. As much as I like the idea that he carried a torch for Lily, mightn’t it also be possible that when Voldemort chose Potter as his nemesis, Snape realized he was in some mystically deep doodoo? V wouldn’t have cared – who cares, thou good and faithful servant, if I’m about to win anyway? Considering that the Potters were under a Fidelius, it’s possible even Dumbledore didn’t even know how to find them. Snape could have provided him that important bit of information, though considering Dumbledore doesn’t appear to have shown up at all in Godric’s Hollow, sending Hagrid instead and after the fact, indicates that he had no foreknowledge that the Potters were going to be attacked. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/86 "2007-05-01T20:19:00Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] Also, were James and Lily living in a wizarding community or in a Muggle community? As memory serves Rowling did say that Harry’s visit to where his parents died will have a significant find. [/QUOTE] I can’t remember why I think so, but I’m fairly certain it was a Muggle community. Possibly I think so because Hogsmeade is the only all-wizard village in England, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/87 "2007-05-01T20:28:27Z")
[QUOTE=Little Plastic Ninja] Rowling’s made a lot – or Dumble has, at least – about the importance of lifedebts, that showing mercy puts that person into your service. James Potter saved Snape’s life. Snape turned around and, a few years later, got James killed. As much as I like the idea that he carried a torch for Lily, mightn’t it also be possible that when Voldemort chose Potter as his nemesis, Snape realized he was in some mystically deep doodoo? V wouldn’t have cared – who cares, thou good and faithful servant, if I’m about to win anyway? [/QUOTE] Except that Snape was a DeathEater before he became a “double secret agent”. I doubt that DeathEater’s put that much stock in lifedebts, so I can’t imagine that Dumbledore would take the existence of one between Snape and James as such absolute proof of Snape’s loyalty. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/88 "2007-05-01T20:32:52Z")
I think the important things to consider is that Fawkes isn’t immune to death — he reincarnates serially. He is **reborn** , or re-hatched from the egg or whatever, as a phoenix youngling. If you’re going to pursue a Dumbledore-is-not-dead theory, this would be a profitable line of enquiry. Me, I think for reasons of dramatic narrative that Dumbledore can’t fight Harry’s fight for him. That doesn’t excluse the possibility that there is a baby Dumbledore out there somewhere, reborn as was Fawkes. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/89 "2007-05-01T20:36:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Considering that the Potters were under a Fidelius, it’s possible even Dumbledore didn’t even know how to find them. Snape could have provided him that important bit of information No, he couldn’t have, since Snape wasn’t the Secret-Keeper. > [@](#): > > I doubt that DeathEater’s put that much stock in lifedebts, so I can’t imagine that Dumbledore would take the existence of one between Snape and James as such absolute proof of Snape’s loyalty. They don’t have to put stock in it; it’s there whether they acknowledge it or not. Remember, we first heard of life-debts in the context of Wormtail owing Harry one. And remember, Rowling has pretty definitively stated that there’s no communication from the Next World to this one. There are those who haven’t actually left this world yet (like ghosts and Voldemort), and of course those who have died can leave behind portraits, memories, and other traces of their time here, but from that undiscovered country none return. So don’t put too much stock in the crossing-over-at-Halloween ideas. **WhyNot** , there’s another reference, after the battle, when (I think) Hermione is telling Harry what happened. I’ll look it up when I get home. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/90 "2007-05-01T21:09:01Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] Except that Snape was a DeathEater before he became a “double secret agent”. I doubt that DeathEater’s put that much stock in lifedebts, so I can’t imagine that Dumbledore would take the existence of one between Snape and James as such absolute proof of Snape’s loyalty. [/QUOTE] But Peter Pettigrew is a Death Eater also, or at least a flunky. Harry saved his life and Dumbledore seemed to think this was significant. I think it has the same deep mysticism as sacrificing yourself out of love. In preview, as Chronos said. And Chronos: > [@Chronos](#): > > No, he couldn’t have, since Snape wasn’t the Secret-Keeper. No, but Pettigrew was. He obviously told Voldemort, or at least led him there. I dunno, though; that bit seems to wind into nothing. > [@](#): > > but from that undiscovered country none return. [hijack] And that phrase always gives me chills. 🙂 [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/91 "2007-05-01T21:10:38Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] As to why I subscribe to the theory, its been more then a year now, but after I finished reading the last book, I was pretty convinced. My rough recollections of why were: [/QUOTE] There are some other things. In PS, Voldemort straight-out says that Lily needn’t have died, and in PoA we learn that Voldemort repeatedly told her to stand aside while he was trying to kill Harry, and only killed her when she refused. There’s also the “Harry looks exactly like his father, but with his mother’s eyes” thing. So every time Snape sees Harry, he sees a reminder that Lily chose James, or so the theory goes. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/92 "2007-05-01T21:41:15Z")
[QUOTE=Little Plastic Ninja] But Peter Pettigrew is a Death Eater also, or at least a flunky. Harry saved his life and Dumbledore seemed to think this was significant. I think it has the same deep mysticism as sacrificing yourself out of love. [/QUOTE] But whatever the deep mysticism is, it doesn’t seem to be of the type to make someone loyal to the person they owe the debt to. Pettigrew certainly doesn’t seem loyal in anyway to Harry during their next meeting, lifedebt or no. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/93 "2007-05-01T22:13:25Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] Harry is absolutely not going to use Avada Kedavra. But there are other ways to kill. Which leads me to another **Prediction: Harry is going to use some thoroughly Muggle method to kill Voldemort** , such as a gun. [/QUOTE] I seriously don’t see Rowling resorting quite to this. A more time honored tradition to dispatch a fictional villain would be death… by gravity!!! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/94 "2007-05-01T23:35:58Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **eleanorigby** > > Petunia will ally herself with Harry, much to her horror, Harry’s surprise and to his benefit. She knows something about Godric’s Hollow–perhaps she’ll be the one to take Harry there? > > I know their maiden name was Evans, but I’ve wondered if perhaps their mother was a Riddle, or if perhaps they themselves were Riddles and adopted by a stepfather named Evans. Too much has been made of Harry’s resemblance to Voldemort for it to be a red herring, but I can’t imagine Voldemort having sired children and they certainly wouldn’t be Gaunt as that family seems to have been extinguished (though it would account for the Parseltongue). Problem being that if Harry is related to Voldemort through his mother, whence came the Tom Riddle genes that have him looking like his **father**? > [@Fretful Porpentine](#): > > Ooh! What about Cecilia, Tom Riddle, Senior’s first girlfriend? I guess it’s possible that she and Tom had a child who is running around somewhere… Maybe they did. [I had a little fun with this last month.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8399094&postcount=20) 🙂 > [@Little Plastic Ninja](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **Sampiro** > > Also, were James and Lily living in a wizarding community or in a Muggle community? As memory serves Rowling did say that Harry’s visit to where his parents died will have a significant find. > > I can’t remember why I think so, but I’m fairly certain it was a Muggle community. > > Possibly I think so because Hogsmeade is the only all-wizard village in England, isn’t it? Maybe, but them living in a completely Muggle community called Godric’s Hollow strikes me as carrying coincidence a bit far… Speaking of Godric’s Hollow and the Fidelius Charm, how is it that Professor McGonnagal knew that that was where Voldemort showed up on Hallowe’en? And if the Fidelius Charm makes it so that only the Secret Keeper can utter the name of the place out loud, how was Minerva able to do it? > [@Little Plastic Ninja](#): > > But Peter Pettigrew is a Death Eater also, or at least a flunky. He’s the genuine article. He has the Dark Mark brand, doesn’t he? > [@Askia](#): > > I seriously don’t see Rowling resorting quite to this. A more time honored tradition to dispatch a fictional villain would be death… by gravity!!! Hey, I’m a Muggle, and I use gravity all the time! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/95 "2007-05-01T23:53:56Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Speaking of Godric’s Hollow and the Fidelius Charm, how is it that Professor McGonnagal knew that that was where Voldemort showed up on Hallowe’en? And if the Fidelius Charm makes it so that only the Secret Keeper can utter the name of the place out loud, how was Minerva able to do it? [/QUOTE] Presumably, she already knew the secret. Given that Harry, Hermione and Ron can discuss Number Four, Grimmauld Place amongst themselves, I think we can take it as a given that people who know the secret are allowed to talk about it with other people who know the secret. It’s also possible that when the secret was betrayed to Voldemort, the charm was dispelled. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/96 "2007-05-02T00:16:37Z")
Perhaps. Seems to me like an awful lot of folks knew about the Potters’ security plans, though. Also, I don’t see why revealing the location of their hideout to Voldemort in particular would break the spell for everyone else. As with a Dumbledore-penned note letting Harry in on the secret of Sirius’s address, Pettigrew telling Voldy strikes me as being a matter that the Secret Keeper has sole discretion over. Moody was just more reliable about showing the note only to Harry, then destroying it. Curious thing, though. Why did it take Hagrid nearly twenty-four hours to find the baby and get him to Sussex? Hasn’t Dumbledore ever heard of Side-along Apparition? Hey, I wonder if Harry’s going to chivvy a memory out of a wood-nymph in Godric’s Hollow, then explore it in the Pensieve with Ron and Hermione? 😃 And it’s Number 12 Grimmauld Place. Number 4 is Privet Drive. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/97 "2007-05-02T00:29:55Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Also, I don’t see why revealing the location of their hideout to Voldemort in particular would break the spell for everyone else. [/QUOTE] While, it is the _Fidelius_ Charm after all. After showing no fidelity to the Potters at all, it’s possible that the spell could be broken. EDA: :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/98 "2007-05-02T02:00:49Z")
My craziest theory has always been that Voldemort and Harry are somehow the same person. My theory as to how this happened is too strained to go into for something so inaccurate. Think the giants will play a role in _Hallows_? They seem to be non-verbal monsters, but if not then Hagrid and his baby bro was a big waste of time for a red herring side tale. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/99 "2007-05-02T03:39:53Z")
Ah, here we go. Ginny speaking, near the beginning of Chapter 29: The Phoenix Lament (bottom of page 612, in the American paperback edition) > [@](#): > > And a Death Eater’s dead, he got hit by a Killing Curse that huge blond one was firing off everywhere– ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/100 "2007-05-02T14:19:08Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] But whatever the deep mysticism is, it doesn’t seem to be of the type to make someone loyal to the person they owe the debt to. Pettigrew certainly doesn’t seem loyal in anyway to Harry during their next meeting, lifedebt or no. [/QUOTE] Certainly not, but it could be like a rather lesser form of that oath-I-can’t-remember-the-name-of from the latest book. I seem to remember an interview with Rowling where she admitted that Snape HAD loved someone, which in a way made him more dangerous than Voldemort. Cannot find. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000.md?page=6)