# Your theories for Harry Potter Book 7 (spoilers, obviously) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000 "2007-04-28T22:45:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/141 "2007-05-22T00:35:26Z")
Let me add my voice to those who think: [ul][li] Snape is working against Voldemort[/li][li] Snape loved Lily Evans[/ul]The strongest evidence comes from a conversation between Dumbledore and Harry in _Half-Blood Prince_. After Harry found out from Trelaney that it was Snape who overheard the prophecy, he stormed into Dumbledore’s office demanding to know how Dumbledore could employ the man who had caused Voldemort to murder Harry’s parents. Dumbledore told Harry the following:[/li]1) At the time Snape didn’t know to whom the prophecy referred (i.e., that it would lead to Voldemort targeting James and Lily) 2) Once he saw the result, Snape greatly regretted telling Voldemort. I believe Dumbledore speculates that this might be Snape’s _greatest regret_. It’s possible Dumbledore is mistaken, but at the very least it is clear that Dumbledore _believes_ that Snape loved Lily. What other explanation for his words could there possibly be? Snape has repeatedly expressed his hatred for James, so James’ death would not have bothered him (as Harry himself points out.) Snape hates Harry too, but even if he didn’t, it’s irrelevant since Harry ultimately came through the encounter unscathed. Now, _if_ Snape were loyal to Voldemort, he might have regretted his master’s destruction. But that can’t be it either – if that’s what Dumbledore meant, he never would have presented this in defense of Snape’s actions. Moreover, his preface that Snape didn’t know to whom the prophecy referred would make no sense in that context – _obviously_ Snape knew it referred to Voldemort. He just didn’t know who Voldemort’s _victims_ would be. The only remaining possibility is Lily. Dumbledore believes that Snape regrets telling Voldemort because it resulted in Lily’s death. We’ve heard very little about Snape and Lily. So far as I can recall, Snape’s never mentioned her. He always insults Harry’s _father_ (and his father’s friends) not Harry’s _parents_. There was the one scene Harry witnessed in the pensieve, when James was tormenting Snape and Lily _came to his aid_ by telling James to stop. True, Snape reacted by insulting her, saying something like “I don’t need any help from a mudblood.” But I think this could easily be explained as bluster to cover his embarassment at having to be saved by the girl he’d like to impress. Plus, we know Snape doesn’t like to owe anyone anything – look at his reaction to James saving him from Lupin. Anyway, as I said, I don’t really see any alternative explanation for Dumbledore’s words. So, at the very least, Dumbledore thinks Snape loved Lily. But what if Dumbledore is wrong? Well, I suppose that’s possible, but I don’t think Rowling would have held back Dumbledore’s theory for this long if it was just going to be proven wrong anyway. I have to think she’s holding back on explaining _why_ Dumbledore trusted Snape so as not to give the _readers_ a reason to trust Snape – in other words, to create the maximum shock when Dumbledore’s secret is revealed and Snape is shown to be on the right side after all. While my main reason for believing Snape loved Lily is the one I gave above, it also helps to answer a related question: How could Dumbledore be so sure? Given that Snape is an excellent occlumens, and Voldemort is a renowned legilimens (Snape himself calls Voldemort the _greatest_ legilimens), how could Dumbledore be sure that it was Voldemort and not himself who had been deceived? The answer is that _Dumbledore knows Voldemort’s weakness_. As he’s said more than once, Voldemort _cannot understand **love** , and thus underestimates it._ So it makes perfect sense that Voldemort would fail to suspect that Snape could turn against him out of love. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/142 "2007-05-22T01:17:04Z")
I posted this once a few years ago… One recurring theme of the books has been the general prejudice in the wizarding community against muggles, and that Voldemort in particular hates muggles, but also views them as lesser. And there was that scene at the beginning of book 5 in which the magic prime minister talks to the muggle prime minister. So I’ve been wondering for a while if Voldemort’s ultimate death (once the horcruxes are destroyed, presumably) won’t come at muggle hands… with that muggle/wizard cooperation causing the wizarding world to have new respect and appreciation for muggles. In particular, an SAS sniper at 1000 yards might well be something Voldy has just never considered and prepared himself against. But I can’t decide whether that would be a great ending or seem like _deus ex machina_. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/143 "2007-05-22T02:18:33Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool] So I’ve been wondering for a while if Voldemort’s ultimate death (once the horcruxes are destroyed, presumably) won’t come at muggle hands… with that muggle/wizard cooperation causing the wizarding world to have new respect and appreciation for muggles. In particular, an SAS sniper at 1000 yards might well be something Voldy has just never considered and prepared himself against. But I can’t decide whether that would be a great ending or seem like _deus ex machina_. [/QUOTE] Does the Harry Potter universe have any spells like [Entropic Shield](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/entropicShield.htm)? ---
**Author:** ![Farmwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Farmwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmwoman)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/144 "2007-05-22T03:14:38Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] I think the important things to consider is that Fawkes isn’t immune to death — he reincarnates serially. He is **reborn** , or re-hatched from the egg or whatever, as a phoenix youngling. If you’re going to pursue a Dumbledore-is-not-dead theory, this would be a profitable line of enquiry. Me, I think for reasons of dramatic narrative that Dumbledore can’t fight Harry’s fight for him. That doesn’t excluse the possibility that there is a baby Dumbledore out there somewhere, reborn as was Fawkes. [/QUOTE] Which is pretty much what my 7 year old said when I relayed the theory to him. > [@](#): > > ME: I just read an interesting speculation that Dumbledore may be a pheonix animagus and will rise again in the final book. > SON: Yeah, Dumbledore will come back to help Harry…as a _baby!_ > ME: :smack: Just wanted to pop in and say how much I’ve enjoyed reading this thread tonight. I’ve been reading the series (well, rereading through book 4 and now enjoying the 2 more recent installments) with my son each night before bed for about a year now. While it has been tempting to read ahead of him so I could peek at these discussions, I’m glad I held out because now I only have a few months to stew. ---
**Author:** ![Improv\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b3f665/32.png) [@Improv\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improv_Geek)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/145 "2007-05-22T13:59:26Z")
My thoughts for the book 7 is that I think that Snape is truly bad, but not just bad, we discover that he has become more dangerous than Voldy, so halfway through the book Harry and Voldemort have it out and then the big battle is between Harry and Snape. – IG ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/146 "2007-05-22T14:24:46Z")
Have y’all seen Borders’ promotional stickers for the Deathy Hollows book? One says: trust SNAPE and the other: SNAPE is a very bad man 😃 (There might be more, I don’t know. My husband brought these home for me. They’re going right under my “Trust me, I’m a teacher” and “Question Authority” buttons at the computer desk.) ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/147 "2007-05-22T14:42:37Z")
To finally get rid of Voldemort, Harry has to go on a great quest to drop the final horcrux into a volcano. Why he didn’t just use his broomstick or even just apparate there and had to walk instead will be a recurring subject in Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/148 "2007-05-22T14:58:39Z")
I saw a standup at Books-A-Million that had “Snape - fried or foe”. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/149 "2007-05-22T15:22:32Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] I saw a standup at Books-A-Million that had “Snape - fried or foe”. -Joe [/QUOTE] I’ll take the former, but only if they breaded him first. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/150 "2007-05-22T18:13:46Z")
[QUOTE=asterion] To finally get rid of Voldemort, Harry has to go on a great quest to drop the final horcrux into a volcano. [/QUOTE] At which point Peter Pettigrew appears, pounces on Harry and bites his finger off. gaining possession of the Horcrux. He dances around happily before slipping and plunging to his death. Oh wait. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/151 "2007-05-22T22:10:44Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Have y’all seen Borders’ promotional stickers for the Deathy Hollows book? [/QUOTE] A while ago at Borders I saw a “Snape is good / Snape is bad” bookmark - each side had some interesting questions supporting one of the positions. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/152 "2007-05-22T22:11:47Z")
[QUOTE=tim314] Let me add my voice to those who think: [ul][li] Snape is working against Voldemort[/li][li] Snape loved Lily Evans[/ul]The strongest evidence …[/li][/QUOTE] I am with you 100% on this. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/153 "2007-07-06T22:26:55Z")
Bumping this for a new question of mine-one thing I’ve noticed is, that those who were using hand-me-down wands were having problems at Hogwarts. Ron, who was using his brother Charlie’s seemed to do MUCH better once he got his own. Ditto Neville-who, until Book 6, had his father’s old wand. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/154 "2007-07-06T22:41:17Z")
I never could understand why wizards would be cheap and use a hand-me-down wand. Mr. Ollivander clearly says in book 1 that the wand chooses the wizard. You would think that everyone would run out and buy their own wand. Using your dad’s wand would be like using your dad’s toothbrush. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/155 "2007-07-06T22:45:40Z")
Ollivander explained that well enough. Any wizard can use any wand, but will be most when the wand and wizard match. Ron’s first wand might have been a good match for Charlie, but it wasn’t a good match for Ron, so it didn’t work as well. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/156 "2007-07-06T23:15:33Z")
In an interview tonight on BBC JKR was asked if the last word in the last chapter was “scar.” She allowed that indeed it had been the last word for a long while, but not now. I read about the interview on the internet but didn’t see it. It would be nice to see the context of how she addressed the question. Was the last word “scar” for a long while because that was the UL and now that she’s finally written the last chapter it isn’t? Or was the last word “scar” because she really had written the final chapter (the UL was true!) and the final chapter needed to change because of years of character (and plot) development? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/157 "2007-07-06T23:42:34Z")
I noticed something very interesting a couple of weeks ago. In OotP, Dumbledore explains how someone(Snape, as it turns out) overheard the prophecy. Dumbledore says that the eavesdropper was detected part-way through the prophecy and thrown out of the Hogs Head. In HBP, however, Trelawney gives her own version of events. According to Trelawney, Snape was marched into the room after she gave the prophecy, which means that Snape was outside of the room while the _entire_ prophecy was told. Trelawney _can’t_ be lying – if Dumbledore were telling the truth, she wouldn’t even know that Snape had been eavesdropping. Dumbledore must be the one who’s lying – but why? I think that Snape heard the whole prophecy, and I think that he deliberately told Voldemort only the first part of the prophecy. Dumbledore himself said that had Voldemort heard the whole prophecy, he would have known that there would be danger in attacking Harry as a baby. The obvious implication of this statement is that anybody who did hear the entire prophecy would know this as well. So Snape told Voldemort only the first part, to induce him to attack Harry. But why was Dumbledore lying to protect Snape? Simple: he wasn’t. He was lying to protect himself. Snape wasn’t acting alone; he was acting under Dumbledore orders. Dumbledore could never admit to Harry that he was responsible for James and Lily’s deaths – that would destroy any trust there was between them. Dumbledore needed Harry, because he well knows that Harry is the only one who can stop Voldemort. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/158 "2007-07-07T02:01:08Z")
> [@](#): > > But why was Dumbledore lying to protect Snape? Simple: he wasn’t. He was lying to protect himself. Snape wasn’t acting alone; he was acting under Dumbledore orders. For this to work, you have to assume that Dumbledore knew that Trelawny was going to prophesy, and that the contents of the prophecy would be such that it’d be advantageous to leak part of it to Voldemort. I think the simpler explanation is that Aberforth caught Snape partway through, and after somehow warning Dumbledore and getting the go-ahead, brought him back to the room after the prophecy had been finished. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/159 "2007-07-07T02:39:17Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] For this to work, you have to assume that Dumbledore knew that Trelawny was going to prophesy, and that the contents of the prophecy would be such that it’d be advantageous to leak part of it to Voldemort. [/quote] You misunderstand. Having Snape overhear the prophecy was mere chance; Dumbledore just took advantage of it. > [@](#): > > I think the simpler explanation is that Aberforth caught Snape partway through, and after somehow warning Dumbledore and getting the go-ahead, brought him back to the room after the prophecy had been finished. The timing doesn’t work. Trelawney says that Snape is dragged in basically right after she gave the prophecy. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000/160 "2007-07-07T03:22:32Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] Dumbledore must be the one who’s lying – but why? [/quote] I disagree, I just think that J.K. Rowling is guilty of some imprecise writing. I don’t see this slight discrepancy becoming a major revelation. I had a theory to explain the phrasing in [post=8314354]this post here[/post] with amendments a little further down the page, [post=8314677]here[/post]. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-theories-for-harry-potter-book-7-spoilers-obviously/402000.md?page=9)