# Your thoughts on Walter White (Breaking Bad) (SPOILERS IN POLL and DISCUSSION) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 10, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869 "2013-08-10T14:26:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/21 "2013-08-11T17:10:26Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > Lydia and Mike are both “in the game”. They are also definitely playing it, and would turn Walt in or even kill him if the situation demanded it. You could argue that the situations didn’t “demand” it as such. But still, it’s not a dealbreaker to me personally. > > Skylar and Jesse are definitely not without blame either. I maybe even think Jesse behaved worse towards Walt than Walt did towards him. I’m thinking of the time where Walt saved his life by ramming his car into the drug dealers, which was the root of all his troubles with Fring, that Jesse later blamed Walt for. Not okay, Jesse. Once someone takes a great risk to save your life, then you stand by them in whatever consequences this has. What about being ok with someone he’s working with shooting and killing a kid and then helping hide the body so the parents will never know what happened to their son? Most of all your examples I can see (even at a stretch) your logic, but the example I just gave would be a huge dealbreaker to me. : p Sure, you could argue that the discovery of the body could lead to him or that the incarceration or killing of Todd could bring about people finding out about what he does…but none of that justifies the means, IMHO. When you’re on the side of being okay with killing kids and protecting those who do it, even in your own-self interest, and with practically NO guilt at all (they made a point to show Walt whistling and in a good mood during the next cook after the kid was killed and they burned his body in acid) that goes into “You’re a bad guy/criminal” territory, IMHO. Definitely a huge dealbreaker. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/22 "2013-08-11T19:00:57Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > I think him being kind of an awful person all along is the point. I agree with marshmallow, I started disliking him very early. When you think of it, his initial plan about his cancer was pretty twisted and not what you’d expect from someone with strong connections to other people. I think this is more a story about a borderline sociopath who had integrated pretty well into society. Early on, his bad behavior was enough to weigh down his towering intellect and his charm so that his career went nowhere. He’s not serial-killer level, so he learns to basically play by the rules and pursues what everyone else in our culture does - job, family, home. But then he gets a trigger for letting all his innate grandiosity, shallow emotional connection, failure to accept responsibility, impulsivity, lack of empathy, and manipulation to really shine forth. Great post. I think it’s interesting: _Breaking Bad_ (at least in the treatment of its main characters) is in a way an experimental analysis of human psychology, in the same way that the naturalist novel was. Start with an hypothesis, take characters X and Y, and subject them to condition Z. Write the characters as honestly as possible, see what pops out. If the starting hypothesis of _Breaking Bad_ was that a person can transform radically, and go from “Mr. Chips to Scarface”, it’s interesting to see that the results of the experiment increasingly point to the opposite (and I think the writers caught on to this pretty early): People don’t really change, they stay true to their inner selves. Walt is able to become Heisenberg only because that is the person he was all along, under the surface. He doesn’t go through a metamorphosis, just a process of revealing. It may be true that any person can become dangerous, but they doesn’t mean that they can become Walt. Jesse and Skyler have they own journeys to the dark side, but they don’t turn into psychopaths along the way. On the contrary, in spite of their actions, their moral compasses are still pointing in the right direction, and that is why they are being destroyed from the inside. (Jesse, for one, seems to agree with this. In the episode _Fly_, when Walt comes close to revealing his part in Jane’s death, Jesse says: “It’s not your fault. Not mine either. It’s no one’s fault. Not even hers. We are who we are.” And Jane is indeed a character who demonstrates that “we are who we are”, in that no amount of parental guidance or twelve-step programs could keep her from going back to shooting heroin.) Rather than the concept of change, I think another theme has become the dominant one on the show: One of surfaces versus the underlying truth, of appearances versus reality. Walt’s Heisenberg persona hides under the veneer of the mild-mannered chemistry teacher, and the show is populated with criminals who hide in plain sight, in the middle of “normal” society, right under the noses of those who want to catch them. Walt, Jesse, Gus Fring, Mike, Saul, and later Skyler, all do this. (Not to mention Lydia and other employees at Madrigal, or the crew running “Vamonos Pest”. The whole storyline about cooking in the tented houses is entirely about that.) I think Walt’s true self was buried pretty deep at the beginning of the series, though. I think he had managed to hide it even from himself. Walt is a world class liar, and he lies to himself most of all. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/23 "2013-08-11T19:17:22Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > I think him being kind of an awful person all along is the point. I agree with marshmallow, I started disliking him very early. When you think of it, his initial plan about his cancer was pretty twisted and not what you’d expect from someone with strong connections to other people. I think this is more a story about a borderline sociopath who had integrated pretty well into society. Early on, his bad behavior was enough to weigh down his towering intellect and his charm so that his career went nowhere. He’s not serial-killer level, so he learns to basically play by the rules and pursues what everyone else in our culture does - job, family, home. But then he gets a trigger for letting all his innate grandiosity, shallow emotional connection, failure to accept responsibility, impulsivity, lack of empathy, and manipulation to really shine forth. Totally agree. To use the [Kill Bill scene’s analogy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_cEoK1mXms), Heisenberg was who he was, Walt White was his Clark Kent. One thing I’m surprised at is that we’ve never learned anything about his childhood save that he doesn’t care for his mother. (It was mentioned a couple of times that she’s still alive, but he has nothing to do with her.) We did once see a flashback to when he was dating Skyler. I’m wondering if we’re going to learn something revealing about Young Walt this time. [Hijack]For anyone not familiar, I am very glad to report that Chris Hardwick [who I’ll admit to crushing on- great talk show host] is going to be hosting a new series, _[Talking Bad](http://blogs.amctv.com/breaking-bad/2013/08/talking-bad-premieres-this-sunday-1110c-with-guests-vince-gilligan-and-actress-julie-bowen/)_ (modeled on _Talking Dead_) for the final episodes. Tonight’s guest are Vince Gilligan and Julie “Claire Dunphy” Bowen.\* \*I think a Modern Family/Breaking Bad crossover could work- it turns out that Gloria used to date Gus Fring perhaps and he left her something in his will and the family decides to base a New Mexico vacation around it, or Haylee starts dating Walt Jr. after they meet at Space Camp, or Jay decides to increase revenue by letting a guy named Heisenberg rent part of the closet factory for “some kind of math lab- hey, let’s send Manny there to get help with his math scores!”. I think it could work even better than “[Mel is Hogg Tied](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0508766/)”, the Dukes of Hazzard/Alice crossover of '83 that many would agree was the best Sorrell Booke/Vic Tayback joint venture ever. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/24 "2013-08-11T19:32:15Z")
Heck, when I think about it, every character on show seems to have something hidden under the surface. Like Klepto Marie. And Hank, who hides his weakness under a tough-guy persona. Now I’m wondering what dirty secrets Walt Jr. might have. And maybe baby Holly is really the Antichrist. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/25 "2013-08-11T20:16:54Z")
I think I’m more impressed with the transformation of Jesse. No one talks about it, but he’s gone from “young/stupid/wannabe gangster/need some good herbage, yo” to the older/more mature/more reasonable/less egocentric/mr calm cool collected. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/26 "2013-08-11T20:20:59Z")
> [@SykoSkotty](#): > > I think I’m more impressed with the transformation of Jesse. No one talks about it, but he’s gone from “young/stupid/wannabe gangster/need some good herbage, yo” to the older/more mature/more reasonable/less egocentric/mr calm cool collected. Yeah. He’s almost become the smart one of the pair, too. Magnets! See, that’s what can happen when you just apply yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/27 "2013-08-11T20:26:24Z")
Really wish Hank would release his own line of shirts- I like his style. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/28 "2013-08-11T21:45:43Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > I think Walt’s true self was buried pretty deep at the beginning of the series, though. I think he had managed to hide it even from himself. Walt is a world class liar, and he lies to himself most of all. Agreed. Walter White didn’t know what he was and for all of his more recent assertive “I’m dangerous” and “I’m in the empire business” comments I suspect he still doesn’t entirely understand himself even now. I’m not sure I’d call him a sociopath - he seems to actually care in a clueless way about his closest family and pseudo-family, even as he manipulates and destroys them ( and deceives himself that he is doing so for their own good ). He’s more just an enormous narcissist and egotist ( borderline megalomaniac ) with an huge chip on his shoulder from having his natural urges suppressed and beaten down for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/29 "2013-08-11T22:39:02Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Agreed. Walter White didn’t know what he was and for all of his more recent assertive “I’m dangerous” and “I’m in the empire business” comments I suspect he still doesn’t entirely understand himself even now. > > I’m not sure I’d call him a sociopath - he seems to actually care in a clueless way about his closest family and pseudo-family, even as he manipulates and destroys them ( and deceives himself that he is doing so for their own good ). He’s more just an enormous narcissist and egotist ( borderline megalomaniac ) with an huge chip on his shoulder from having his natural urges suppressed and beaten down for decades. I’ve seen no evidence that he cares for his family as anything more than status markers for himself. Which, it so happens, is one of the characteristics of pyschopathy. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/30 "2013-08-11T23:39:09Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I’ve seen no evidence that he cares for his family as anything more than status markers for himself. I disagree ( weakly ). The doting over the baby, saving Jesse when it wasn’t obviously to his benefit ( even put himself at risk ), his seemingly real anguish in the first season or two about the potential plight of his wife and son. I think it is _also_ about status and his own sense of how the world should work. Plus at the end of the day Walter always comes first for Walter, even if he would never admit it. But I think some of the feelings are real. Or real **ish** , anyway ;). But I’ll note that I’m not dogmatic on this topic. I think there is enough evidence to conclude otherwise. But regardless of whether he has real feelings or not, I’m convinced _he_ believes they are real. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/31 "2013-08-11T23:59:08Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Really wish Hank would release his own line of shirts- I like his style. Guayaberas are pretty sweet. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/32 "2013-08-11T23:59:59Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > But I’ll note that I’m not dogmatic on this topic. I think there is enough evidence to conclude otherwise. But regardless of whether he has real feelings or not, I’m convinced _he_ believes they are real. I think he believes they’re real as well. I read an interesting book a few months ago, wish I could remember the name, in which a journalist interviews several people known to be psychopaths as well as some who by reputation seem to fit the profile though no diagnosis has been made. One of them struck me in that the guy seemed in a sense to have a happy, healthy home life. But it became clear over the course of discussion that his feelings towards his wife and dog (I think he had no kids) weren’t what I would recognize as “love” but rather what I would recognize as “pride.” Because of this pride, he was concerned with their well-being, got emotional when they suffered misfortune etc, but not because he cared for them intrinsically, but because this meant he was losing status as a good husband. But the guy seemed to think this is just what caring for someone _is_. I suspect Walt of this kind of “love.” ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/33 "2013-08-12T00:55:49Z")
Walt’s love for his family certainly seems to be all about Walt a lot of the time. He’s desperate to keep his family to himself, which includes trapping Skyler in a marriage she doesn’t want anymore and doing anything to keep the children in the house, despite the potential danger (the “I am the one who knocks” speech becomes pretty weak sauce a few episodes later when Gus threatens to kill everybody). It’s very much about pride. Walt is incredibly jealous, and he can’t stand the thought of someone like Ted (or Hank, in the case of Junior) usurping him. This also goes for his relationship with Jesse. I think Walt does care about Jesse in ways that he won’t even admit to himself, but that involves making sure he gets to keep him for himself. No one else gets to play. Not Jane, not Mike, not Andrea, certainly not Gus. Jesse belongs to Walt, and that’s it. On the other hand, his original decision to provide for his family after he’s gone seems to show some genuine concern, and he does put Jesse in rehab and at times appears to display some real affection for him. There’s some conflicting evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/34 "2013-08-12T05:10:07Z")
> [@planetcory](#): > > I hate him, but that’s exactly why I want him to live. Having him die, I think, is too convenient and a copout. I’d rather have him ‘win’ but lose everything that matters. Ultimately powerful but entirely alone. Yep. I think Walt should live. \*Everyone \*else dies, but Walt “gets away with it”…all alone… ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/35 "2013-08-12T13:29:46Z")
I don’t think it will have an ending like many think, where Walter gets his comeuppance. This show had been about breaking convention and has done a pretty good job being unpredictable. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/36 "2013-08-12T14:32:49Z")
Walt’s cancer is back, they’ve confirmed that. But in the flash forwards (his 52nd birthday) he’s got a full head of hair. So, are we to think he beat it for a 2nd time? Shouldn’t Walt be dead by now? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/37 "2013-08-12T15:04:03Z")
> [@SykoSkotty](#): > > Walt’s cancer is back, they’ve confirmed that. But in the flash forwards (his 52nd birthday) he’s got a full head of hair. So, are we to think he beat it for a 2nd time? Shouldn’t Walt be dead by now? Cancer doesn’t make you lose your hair, chemo does. My guess is that he stops the chemo as soon as he has to go on the run and his hair grows back. My guess is also that he only has a few weeks to live in the flash forwards. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/38 "2013-08-12T15:15:06Z")
Walter White’s complexity is what makes him such a great character. Is the man evil, or is it that he finally discovered an outlet for all the pent up frustration and disappointment in his life that he never got to express? Who knows? I trust the writers to bring the series to an end with a satisfying conclusion, regardless of whether he lives or dies. I think, however, that his survival chances are close to 0%. ETA: After a little more thought, it comes to me that Walt and Jesse are completely antiparallel in their behavior. Walt was a good man who found the confidence to be a badass, and over five seasons he’s been pushing that line to see how far it can go. Contrast Jesse, who was never a “good” kid to begin with, but has been finding his conscience through this journey and is struggling to be good. Quite interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/39 "2013-08-12T21:28:01Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I think he believes they’re real as well. I read an interesting book a few months ago, wish I could remember the name, in which a journalist interviews several people known to be psychopaths as well as some who by reputation seem to fit the profile though no diagnosis has been made. One of them struck me in that the guy seemed in a sense to have a happy, healthy home life. But it became clear over the course of discussion that his feelings towards his wife and dog (I think he had no kids) weren’t what I would recognize as “love” but rather what I would recognize as “pride.” Because of this pride, he was concerned with their well-being, got emotional when they suffered misfortune etc, but not because he cared for them intrinsically, but because this meant he was losing status as a good husband. > > But the guy seemed to think this is just what caring for someone _is_. > > I suspect Walt of this kind of “love.” [The Psychopath Test](http://www.amazon.com/The-Psychopath-Test-Journey-Industry/dp/1594485755)? I’ve heard two interviews with the author and its exactly what I was thinking of when I called Walter a borderline psychopath and imagined him fitting into society more out of self interest than empathy. Its not that I think he’s without empathy entirely, and definitely not unemotional. Just that he has a much easier time than average in rationalizing, putting blame on others, and feeding his own ego at the expense of other people. He would be boring as an automaton - he’s interesting for reflecting our normal weaknesses, only amplified. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869/40 "2013-08-15T14:22:59Z")
I think it was when Walt blew up Gus that it really finally hit me that I had been rooting for the villain in the story. Although I suppose Gus, too, had lost his soul to a large extent, I could completely get behind his quest for revenge against Don Eladio and Hector. They killed his boyfriend! And he almost had it, when Walt barged in and completely clusterf\*\*\*ed everything he had worked for, letting Hector have the last laugh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-thoughts-on-walter-white-breaking-bad-spoilers-in-poll-and-discussion/665869.md?page=3)