# Your unpopular interpretations of creative works \[Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 3, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194 "2009-08-03T18:34:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/21 "2009-08-04T04:12:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Agreed. I’ve always felt that the point of art is to tell the audience something about themselves, not to tell them something about the artist. So when the audience interpretation [goes against everything the artist believes in](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MisaimedFandom) in a way that’s abhorrent and unfair to the artist (in the sense that they believe that the artist is or believes X when he really is or believes Y), whose fault is it? Or is just the hazard of art? Does it in any way matter? **Tengu** : I agree with your Star Ocean point; in fact, I think it was _the entire message of the game_ that no matter how unreal the 4Ders thought the 3Ders were, that they WERE, on their own, sentient beings whose lives and actions mattered. As for the FFTA one, well, I’d debate that, but I don’t think this is the place for it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/22 "2009-08-04T04:32:32Z")
I’m not the only one to mention it, nor the first (though I did come up with it on my own - promise!), but I’ve argued that _The Wizard of Oz_ depicted the final skirmishes in a larger war between warring witches and warlocks. When you get right down to it, the vast majority of the Oz power structure lies in ruins after Dorothy leaves. Wicked Witch of the East? Dead. West? Dead. Wizard of Oz? Gone on a delusional flight of fancy. Who remains to pick up the tatters? Glinda. Oh, how the munchkins must wail under her cruel lash! ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/23 "2009-08-04T04:39:09Z")
I think that the Beast in Beauty and the Beast (the Disney version) did not actually think of himself as a beast; I think he still thought of himself as a prince. My reasoning for this is that in the song in which he sings (_Something There_) his singing voice is noticeably higher than his speaking voice throughout the rest of the film. This was the only time he was talking to himself (well, thinking out loud in the form of the lyrics) instead of speaking to the audience. In other words, he thinks in the Prince’s voice and not in the gruff, growly Beast voice, even though he can only outwardly express himself in the latter. Nobody else I know accepts this theory. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/24 "2009-08-04T04:41:25Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So when the audience interpretation [goes against everything the artist believes in](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MisaimedFandom) in a way that’s abhorrent and unfair to the artist (in the sense that they believe that the artist is or believes X when he really is or believes Y), whose fault is it? Or is just the hazard of art? Does it in any way matter? If you’re trying to figure out what the artist believes, then reader response is the wrong way to go about things. If someone reads _1984_ and says, “This book is a ringing endorsement of Stalinist totalitarianism!” then that’s what that person got out of the book. If they read is and say, “George Orwell supports Stalinist totalitarianism,” that’s where they’re objectively wrong, and you start bringing in outside sources to disprove them. But at it’s heart, reader response isn’t about objective truth, it’s about subjective experiences - What did _you_ learn from this book? It’s worth noting that, while the idea that “there are no wrong answers” is a big part of this approach, that doesn’t rule out _better_ answers. If someone comes out of _1984_ thinking, “Yay, police state!” then it’s fair to ask, “Did you miss the part with the rats?” I mentioned earlier that the purpose of art is to reveal something about the viewer. Sometimes, what it reveals is that he’s a dumb ass. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/25 "2009-08-04T04:52:17Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > \ FWIW, **Frobozz** , there’s really no statute of limitations on spoilers; the guiding principle is one of general consideration. Every year a couple threads pop up with titles like “_I finally got around to Citizen Kane!_” so any discussion of Rosebud’s identity should be spoilered out of simple politeness. Not that you didn’t indeed politely mention that there would be spoilers ahead; this is only to address the idea of a statute of limitations on spoilers. \ I have fallen foul of this. I once mentioned, in a poker thread, the winner of the WSOP. Someone reading the thread jumped all over me because the replay had not yet been shown on TV and I had ruined the surprise. Well I hadn’t seen a replay either, the story was all over the news. The idea that anyone could be a poker fan and not know the result seemed as bizarre as a baseball fan not knowing who won the World Series a month after it was played. Now I err on the side of caution with spoilers. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/26 "2009-08-04T05:37:31Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m not the only one to mention it, nor the first (though I did come up with it on my own - promise!), but I’ve argued that _The Wizard of Oz_ depicted the final skirmishes in a larger war between warring witches and warlocks. When you get right down to it, the vast majority of the Oz power structure lies in ruins after Dorothy leaves. Wicked Witch of the East? Dead. West? Dead. Wizard of Oz? Gone on a delusional flight of fancy. > > Who remains to pick up the tatters? Glinda. Oh, how the munchkins must wail under her cruel lash! :dubious: I know I read the series as a kid, & it’s…actually even more convoluted than that. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/27 "2009-08-04T05:57:57Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > … Glinda. Oh, how the munchkins must wail under her cruel lash! Didn’t Betty Page make a career in modeling under this supposition? My unpopular opinion? 98.9% of movies suck major ass. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/28 "2009-08-04T06:06:16Z")
When I read _1984_ as a high schooler, I originally thought Winston Smith was literally executed by firing squad & his last thought was that finally “he loved Big Brother”, perhaps for finally putting him out of his misery. I do maintain that at the end of Kubrick’s movie of _A Clockwork Orange_, Alex was indeed cured- no longer Ludivico-neutered, but ALSO so longer evil-driven. His violent urges are now random & disorganized while his final sexual fantasy is joyously non-violent. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/29 "2009-08-04T06:07:19Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Didn’t Betty Page make a career in modeling under this supposition? I want to see that movie! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/30 "2009-08-04T06:11:39Z")
_Fight Club_ is a parable about the rise of Fascism in early-20th Century Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/31 "2009-08-04T16:03:48Z")
For years I’ve argued that _American Pie_ is not just about the death of Buddy Holly (and by extension, the death of rock and roll) but about the entire political scene in the 1960s. _His widowed bride_ = Jackie Kennedy _Drove my Chevvy to the levee but the levee was dry_ = a wishful reinterpretation of what should have happened at Chappaquiddick _The jester, the coat from James Dean and a voice that came from you and me_ = an obvious reference to Abby Hoffman and the antiwar protestors _The jester stole his thorny crown_ = LBJ wore the thorny crown, and his decision not to run for re-election in 1968 _The courtroom was adjourned_ = the Chicago Seven trial _The players tried to take the field but the marching band refused to yield_ = the Kent State shootings _The three men I admire most, the father, son and ghost, they took the last train for the coast_ = John and Robert kennedy, and Martin Luther King. The train was the funeral train that took RFK to Washington. And the metaphors keep on coming, but I trust I’ve made my case. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/32 "2009-08-04T16:30:56Z")
\*\*Frosty the Snowman \*\*is Christ. He’s magic; he performs miracles. He dies and returns from the dead. Then he leaves again, promising to come back again ‘someday.’ I agree that **It’s a Wonderful Life** can be depressing. Especially as regards the bar - there’s no indication that in the ‘good’ world that Nick is any better a person - he’s presumably still an asshole, but with less power. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/33 "2009-08-04T18:22:14Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > For years I’ve argued that _American Pie_ is not just about the death of Buddy Holly (and by extension, the death of rock and roll) but about the entire political scene in the 1960s. > > _His widowed bride_ = Jackie Kennedy > _Drove my Chevvy to the levee but the levee was dry_ = a wishful reinterpretation of what should have happened at Chappaquiddick > _The jester, the coat from James Dean and a voice that came from you and me_ = an obvious reference to Abby Hoffman and the antiwar protestors > _The jester stole his thorny crown_ = LBJ wore the thorny crown, and his decision not to run for re-election in 1968 > _The courtroom was adjourned_ = the Chicago Seven trial > _The players tried to take the field but the marching band refused to yield_ = the Kent State shootings > _The three men I admire most, the father, son and ghost, they took the last train for the coast_ = John and Robert kennedy, and Martin Luther King. The train was the funeral train that took RFK to Washington. > > And the metaphors keep on coming, but I trust I’ve made my case. I think there’s a lot right in your theory but also a lot still open to other interpertations. How was LBJ a jester? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/34 "2009-08-04T19:21:22Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > For years I’ve argued that _American Pie_ is not just about the death of Buddy Holly (and by extension, the death of rock and roll) but about the entire political scene in the 1960s. > > _The jester stole his thorny crown_ = LBJ wore the thorny crown, and his decision not to run for re-election in 1968 > > And the metaphors keep on coming, but I trust I’ve made my case. I think there are clear cultural references in the song, but I would interpret this line perhaps differently. [According to The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/908/what-is-don-mcleans-song-american-pie-all-about), an interview with Don McLean revealed that he was indeed referencing Bob Dylan when he said, ‘‘the jester.’’ My knee-jerk reaction to this line would be that it is a commentary on a cultural shift away from traditional religious values and toward… well, Bob Dylan et al. Christ’s metaphorical crown stolen by a new wave of philosophers, a new way of thinking about the world, embodied in the image of Bob Dylan. Music kind of ruled that era, if you think about it. It took on a new kind of social consciousness, it created new values. The idea of this ideological rift is reinforced by stanzas like: \*Did you write the book of love, And do you have faith in God above, If the Bible tells you so? Do you believe in rock 'n roll, Can music save your mortal soul, And can you teach me how to dance real slow? \* I’m not convinced by McLean’s mourning tone that he is 100% comfortable with this cultural shift, either. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/35 "2009-08-04T19:27:33Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > For years I’ve argued that _American Pie_ is not just about the death of Buddy Holly (and by extension, the death of rock and roll) but about the entire political scene in the 1960s. > > _The jester, the coat from James Dean and a voice that came from you and me_ = an obvious reference to Abby Hoffman and the antiwar protestors > _The jester stole his thorny crown_ = LBJ wore the thorny crown, and his decision not to run for re-election in 1968 I won’t speak to the rest, but the Jester is Bob Dylan. - for the coat, see the cover of “The Freewheelin’ Bob Dylan” - re: the voice, a reference to Dylan adopting different elements of American singer-songwriter tradition - “Oh, and while the king was looking down,/The jester stole his thorny crown”: reference to Dylan’s fame/voice to the American youth rising as Elvis’s falls - “With the jester on the sidelines in a cast.”: reference to Dylan’s 1966 motorcycle crash ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/36 "2009-08-04T19:35:20Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > How was LBJ a jester? Didn’t express myself clearly. The jester was Abby Hoffman and by extension, the anti-war movement. That’s what cost LBJ his crown. > [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > I think there are clear cultural references in the song, but I would interpret this line perhaps differently. [According to The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/908/what-is-don-mcleans-song-american-pie-all-about), an interview with Don McLean revealed that he was indeed referencing Bob Dylan when he said, ‘‘the jester.’’ Don McLean is certainly welcome to interpret his own song anyway he wants. I just happen to think he’s wrong.😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/37 "2009-08-04T19:36:45Z")
_Starship Troopers_ really was a face-value celebration of fascism and militarism, and nothing more. I mean if it really _was_ intended as a parody of same, on those grounds it failed (would have failed) miserably. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/38 "2009-08-04T19:48:22Z")
(the movie, not the book)_The Bridge on the River Kwai_ is set in WWII, but is about the British military’s bloody-mindedness in WWI (the book, not the movie) _The Planet of the Apes_ is set on an imagined planet, but it’s inspired by the author’s experience as a European colonial in SE Asia when the Japanese took over. (not so much “unpopular,” as “who cares?”) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/39 "2009-08-04T20:03:02Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Who remains to pick up the tatters? Glinda. Oh, how the munchkins must wail under her cruel lash! The Wizard appointed the Straw Man as his successor before he left, and the Munchkins seemed to accept that by acclamation. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194/40 "2009-08-04T20:04:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The Wizard appointed the Straw Man as his successor Back to the ‘obvious things you just realized’ thread :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-unpopular-interpretations-of-creative-works-spoilers/505194.md?page=3)