Your Utopia

[ethelbert]

@Curtis LeMay

9. Any other comments? I think a society like this could actually be possible if there was a strong revival of religion and a greater care for fellow human beings.

I don’t have a clear vision of utopia, but I am pretty sure it doesn’t include a “strong revival of religion”. I assume Curtis means a strong revival of his religion.

Strong revivals of competing religions would make for a rather chaotic utopia (each of them would want to impose their own utopia on the others).

Leave me out.

[Der_Trihs]

And of course, in my utopia there’s no religion at all.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@Der_Trihs

And of course, in my utopia there’s no religion at all.

Would your genetically engineered species be incapable of receiving or forming religion?

[Telemark]

@Curtis LeMay

Would your genetically engineered species be incapable of receiving or forming religion?

You asked for people’s opinions. Don’t get all huffy when they don’t line up with yours.

[Wesley_Clark]

@Curtis LeMay

These questions were given to various people (including John Lennon and Dr. Benjamin Spock) in 1975 in the People’s Almanac on what their Utopia would be. Keep in mind this would be an earthly utopia so complete perfection would still be impossible but still the best of all possible worlds.

1. What would the physical environment of your utopia be like? My utopia would be a highly developed and advanced united world. Vast tracts of nature would still be preserved of course. Cities would be large and laid out with both a downtown sections with sleek skyscrapers and the like and large sections of unique architecture (ie Victorian or Baroque or Georgian or Indian). Possibly the best cities would be in architecture Edwardian London.

2. What family structures would exist? More or less the same time but with more faithfulness and integrity and stronger extended family bonds (as in Asia) with old people (if they need to be) being taken care of by their children.

3. How would government be organized? Along federal republican democratic lines with strong oversight and tough anticorruption laws. Average citizens are represented in all levels of governments alongside politicians and bureaucrats.

4. How would work and goods be divided? Strongly cooperative bonds between corporations and unions. Taxes would be minimal and largely on individuals rather than businesses.

5. How would education take place? Education would be truly life-long. After mandatory schooling until eighteen (combining scholarly/classical study with scientific education and practical experience) anyone is free to go to college if they have minimal ability. Also all adults are encourage to take educationc lasses.

6. What crimes would there be and how would they be punished? There will still be crimes but much reduced and they would be treated by extensive psychological restructuring of the mind and genuine repentence.

7. What would YOUR role be in the society? I would be a historian and/or reporter covering on this world.

8. Why isn’t life like this now? Because people in general are selfish, wicked, immoral, and totally depraved and lack faith in God.

9. Any other comments? I think a society like this could actually be possible if there was a strong revival of religion and a greater care for fellow human beings.

1. The true reason we don’t have utopia is internal. As long as our brains are hardwired by evolution we are going to be miserable. So only reprogramming our reward/punishments and our emotions is going to create utopia. So the external environment isn’t too important.

2. The same ones we have now. Except empathy would be more powerful and directed more generally at other sentient creatures.

3. Pretty much all nations, once they obtain wealth and a level of philosophical sophistication seem to adopt constitutional democracy that protects the rights and integrity of individuals. So that.

4. A welfare state similar to western Europe with heavy investments in infrastructure, education and health.

5. Life long opportunities in various fields. I think our current educational system is only designed to encourage a minimal range of human talents. The opportunity for lifelong education to grow all talents (interpersonal, intrapersonal, musical, academic) at free or affordable cost at any point in life would exist.

6. Yay for totalism. Crime would be punished by having the criminal experience the pain he/she caused the victims. Empathy again.

7. Beach bum.

8. Because we are evolved to not die in the savannahs, not to live in utopia. So our brains aren’t hardwired for us to enjoy life to any meaningful degree, just to survive it.

9. My definition of utopia is more internal. I think we’d have to rewire our brains to have a meaningful utopia. Rewiring would consist of growing and developing various positive talents (empathy, fluid intelligence, creativity, solving interpersonal and intrapersonal problems) while replacing pain (physical and mental) with a different ‘carrot’ to prevent people from engaging in destructive behavior. Maybe instead of pain people would just have severe lethargy when doing something destructive.

[Der_Trihs]

@Curtis LeMay

@Der_Trihs

And of course, in my utopia there’s no religion at all.

Would your genetically engineered species be incapable of receiving or forming religion?

They’d be too intelligent, rational and well educated to buy into any such thing. They wouldn’t have the mental defects that make humans vulnerable to religion. They could certainly make one up or study historical examples if they wanted to but they’d never take it seriously any more than a modern adult takes Santa Claus seriously. And they wouldn’t have the impulse to worship gods (or anything else for that matter) at all; both power lust and the lust to submit would be excised from their posthuman psychology.

[Babale]

FUN ANSWER:

1. What would the physical environment of your utopia be like? North America during the Jurassic period. What fun!

2. What family structures would exist? All the people would be me and say, forty other people, of both genders. Each person would have a spouse. Children would be raised by the parents. The biggest differences in gender roles would be:

1. While the woman is pregnant, the man goes hunting.
2. If the man and the woman are strolling through the forest and they come upon a big pile of dino-poo, the man must make a bridge out of leaves to let the woman cross while staying clean. Or they walk around.

3. How would government be organized? Straight democracy. Whoever is holding the Allosaurus Tooth is allowed to speak at general meetings.

4. How would work and goods be divided? Man and wife hunt as a team. They keep their food.

5. How would education take place? Everyone trains their own children to hunt.

6. What crimes would there be and how would they be punished? Crimes are basically whatever hurts other people. A vote is taken to decide on punishment.

7. What would YOUR role be in the society? I would be head hunter, leading great Stegosaurus chases while mounted on Allosaurus.

8. Why isn’t life like this now? Because dinosaurs are extinct and there are more than forty people in the world.

9. Any other comments? We’d probably have songs like, “Imagine no Sauropods… It isn’t hard to do… We’ll stop stepping in big piles of ****! And we’ll have more time for luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunch!!!” or “We all live in the brownish-gray cave… Brownish gray cave… Brownish gray cave.”

[madmonk28]

@Panurge

@madmonk28

Everything would be exactly the same as it is now, but smoking is good for you.

Throw in some booze too, and I’m there!

Booze is already good for you, it has got me through some dreadful parties.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@Der_Trihs

And of course, in my utopia there’s no religion at all.

So your happiness is more important than the happiness of the religious?

[Babale]

@Skald_the_Rhymer

@Der_Trihs

And of course, in my utopia there’s no religion at all.

So your happiness is more important than the happiness of the religious?

Knowing him, they’d all be euthanized

[Moonlitherial]

@Skald_the_Rhymer

@Der_Trihs

And of course, in my utopia there’s no religion at all.

So your happiness is more important than the happiness of the religious?

Hey this is his Utopia not theirs!

[TruCelt]

@Curtis LeMay

8. Why isn’t life like this now? Because people in general are selfish, wicked, immoral, and totally depraved and lack faith in God.

I think viewing most people as “totally depraved” shows a distinct lack of faith in God. There are actually very few completely depraved people, and if most were such I think we’d have to assess the entire “Earth” and “Human” experiments as distinct failures. But I don’t think God has failed with humanity, and I think most people are inherently good, if occasionally inconvenient or annoying.

The very few who are “totally depraved” get a lot pf press,a nd cause an inordinate amount fo trouble. But they are far from being the majority.

[Balthisar]

@TruCelt

The very few who are “totally depraved” get a lot pf press,a nd cause an inordinate amount fo trouble. But they are far from being the majority.

Well, there are certain sects of Christianity that would think a woman in a bikini in public is “totally depraved,” or those of us who don’t believe in Creationism as being “totally depraved.” When growing up, my particular sect tried to convince us that pictures of Christ with long hair were depraved, because any proper, good, young Christian would have a short, neat haircut. :rolleyes:

[kanicbird]

I had what I believe is divine revelation of heaven. This is what I would say:

• We have one partner for life, perfectly matched to us, one we just must Love intensely and they Love us, there is no option, they are as much of you as you are of them
• We get to play in a fantasy world that would go beyond such type fantasy and sci-fi movies, where we could role play any character, and our counterpart would also play the opposite gender character, we would experience making Love in all different formats and people, even reversal of gender (and I would suppose homosexuality)
  -We have loving brothers and sisters (with their own soul mates) that also assists us and we them
• We sometimes spend several days in that fantasy land, or just a day, but can always come home our loving parents.
• We get gifts from our parents, which are wonderful to us.
• We have children, and guide them on adventures we have gone through

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@Balthisar

@TruCelt

The very few who are “totally depraved” get a lot pf press,a nd cause an inordinate amount fo trouble. But they are far from being the majority.

Well, there are certain sects of Christianity that would think a woman in a bikini in public is “totally depraved,” or those of us who don’t believe in Creationism as being “totally depraved.” When growing up, my particular sect tried to convince us that pictures of Christ with long hair were depraved, because any proper, good, young Christian would have a short, neat haircut. :rolleyes:

Totally depraved, as Curtis is using it, has a specific meaning in Christian theology. It’s the notion that humans are so disjoint from God that we are incapable of knowing what is right and what is wrong.

[Der_Trihs]

@Babale

@Skald_the_Rhymer

So your happiness is more important than the happiness of the religious?

Knowing him, they’d all be euthanized

Hardly, I’ve said in the past that I support no such thing.

As for the happiness of the religious; there wouldn’t be any religious people (or normal humans of any kind) to be unhappy or otherwise in this utopia. And no, that doesn’t mean they’ve all been killed any more than the lack of Marduk worshipers is because they were all killed by Christians.