# Your will can be ignored say UK judges. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 28, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383 "2015-07-28T13:10:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/1 "2015-07-28T13:10:39Z")
> **[Your will can be ignored, say judges](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11766651/Your-will-can-be-ignored-say-judges.html)** > > The landmark Court of Appeal ruling has implications for how people should draw up their wills, legal experts say Some judges here in the UK have completely ignored someone’s express wish that her estranged daughter not receive a penny, and it should all go to charity. Judges have overruled it based on the suggestion that the deceased seemed to have no interaction with those charities in her lifetime. So what, right? If someone wants to disinherit their adult children they should be perfectly free to imo. If they state in the will it should all be used to buy antiques which are then to be burned, it’s their right and shouuld be fulfilled, it’s none of the court’s business what the deceased’s rationale is. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/2 "2015-07-28T13:30:25Z")
And _that’s_ why you should give it all away _before_ you die. Like, ideally, the day before.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/3 "2015-07-28T17:58:53Z")
Is there some specific body of law in UK that addresses this? Or are some judges just making shit up? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/4 "2015-07-28T18:12:28Z")
The article cites a specific legal act: > [@](#): > > Mrs Ilott challenged the will in 2007 under a right to “reasonable provision” which is contained in the 1975 Inheritance Act. It is normally used for young children who are left out of wills, but in 2011, Mrs Ilott won £50,000 from the estate before challenging for more money. She lost in the High Court last year but succeeded in the Court of Appeal. The daughter’s family is on the dole. Two of the daughter’s children are still under 18, the other three are legal adults. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/5 "2015-07-28T18:13:48Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Is there some specific body of law in UK that addresses this? Or are some judges just making shit up? Per the article: > [@](#): > > Mrs Ilott challenged the will in 2007 under a right to “reasonable provision” which is contained in the 1975 Inheritance Act. I’m no expert on British law but it seems like that act is exactly what allows this. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/6 "2015-07-28T19:41:32Z")
Before that, you could indeed cut your dependants off with nothing. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/7 "2015-07-28T21:30:50Z")
Groucho Marx left a lot of money to his long time companion Erin Fleming. One of his kids didn’t like that so he sued and won. Quite a few people testified against charges that she held some sort of magic sway over him and abused him. Wills, schmills. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/8 "2015-07-29T01:35:30Z")
Stephen Girard died in 1831 and willed a pot of money to start a boarding school for poor white male orphans. I don’t know the details but the will was broken in 1954 and blacks were admitted. Girls came in 1984. Apparently the court ruled that a city agency, which was the governing body, could not segregate. See [Girard College - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girard_College) for more history. 1954 was the year I graduated from HS and I well remember the furore over the “inviolability of Girard’s will”. But I think it is a legal principle that a will cannot rule for all time. Anyway, the courts took the attitude that the will was against public policy. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/9 "2015-07-29T01:44:19Z")
After you’re dead, there’s only a certain extent to which the still-living will agree to take into account the wishes that you would have had, had you been still around to have them. People should take that into account before agreeing to kick off. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/10 "2015-07-29T01:56:56Z")
I thought judges could always do this here in the US. People can put anything in a will but their wishes can’t necessarily be carried out. In the OP’s case the judges might believe the decedent was acting solely out of spite, and maybe saw that as a sign of diminished capacity. Or maybe they had the sense to realize we shouldn’t give a rat’s ass about what dead people want. You can’t take it with you and it should be up for grabs if you don’t give it away before you die. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/11 "2015-07-29T02:30:38Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Stephen Girard died in 1831 and willed a pot of money to start a boarding school for poor white male orphans. I don’t know the details but the will was broken in 1954 and blacks were admitted. Girls came in 1984. Apparently the court ruled that a city agency, which was the governing body, could not segregate. See [Girard College - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girard_College) for more history. 1954 was the year I graduated from HS and I well remember the furore over the “inviolability of Girard’s will”. But I think it is a legal principle that a will cannot rule for all time. Anyway, the courts took the attitude that the will was against public policy. Another example; the [Barnes Foundation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnes_Foundation). Albert Barnes made a fortune with a drug to treat gonorrhea. He assembled a big collection of Impressionist and Modern art (the Wikipedia article values it at about $25 bilion). He set up a museum outside of Philadelphia but the number of visitors was extremely limited. A few years ago, the trustees were able to break the conditions set up in the will, and move the museum to a more accessible location in Philadelphia. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/12 "2015-07-29T12:04:08Z")
I’m actually surprised that this decision has drawn comment in Britain because I thought the law there already provided for such claims. In New Zealand such claims have long been allowed in our law. Family Protection Act 1955. Law Reform (Testamentary Promises) Act 1949. Relationship Property Act 1976 (matrimonial/community property). > **[Challenges to your will after you die - Community Law](https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-10-wills/challenges-to-your-will-after-you-die/)** > > Challenges to your will after you die Overview There are several ways your will can be challenged and a number of people who can challenge it. Invalid wills – The legal validity of a will can be challenged if, for example, it… Additionally and stemming from centuries of British law, wills may be challenged for testamentary capacity (the testator was nuts) or invalid execution. Indeed I have witnessed a few wills over the years where I later learned the testator had Alzheimer’s or mild dementia. Which didn’t mean they weren’t lucid at that moment and more importantly, the wills treated the family equally so it was non-contentious. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/13 "2015-07-29T12:40:55Z")
There have been U.S. cases where wills set up to entirely disinherit children/relatives have been overridden in the courts for one reason or another. Supposedly if you want to stick it to the rotten son or spouse you’re supposed to at least leave them a token amount to demonstrate you haven’t overlooked them entirely. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/14 "2015-07-29T12:55:00Z")
Its the Daily Torygraph right? Its hardly “Landmark”. [Here](http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2015/797.html) is the judgement is question. Seems unremarkable. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/15 "2015-07-29T13:01:49Z")
- The lights are on But you’re not home Your will Is not your own\* ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/16 "2015-07-29T14:25:55Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Its the Daily Torygraph right? Its hardly “Landmark”. > > [Here](http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2015/797.html) is the judgement is question. Seems unremarkable. That was my impression as well. Courts have always had the power to override a will, in certain exceptional cases. That fact isn’t news, by any stretch of the imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/17 "2015-07-29T14:35:30Z")
What may be a development here is the onus the court is putting on the testator to explain why the testator is disinheriting. I’m also a bit surprised at a middle-aged child being able to rely on the dependant’s relief act cited in the news article. I had thought those types of statutes were normally intended for minor children, or adult disabled children. However, it would depend on the wording used by Parliament in the Act. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/18 "2015-07-29T15:08:29Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > What may be a development here is the onus the court is putting on the testator to explain why the testator is disinheriting. > > I’m also a bit surprised at a middle-aged child being able to rely on the dependant’s relief act cited in the news article. I had thought those types of statutes were normally intended for minor children, or adult disabled children. > > However, it would depend on the wording used by Parliament in the Act. Its [fairly straightforward](http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1975/63). > [@](#): > > Application for financial provision from deceased’s estate. > > (1)Where after the commencement of this Act a person dies domiciled in England and Wales and is survived by any of the following persons:— > > (a)the wife or husband of the deceased; > > (b)a former wife or former husband of the deceased who has not remarried; > > [F1(ba)any person (not being a person included in paragraph (a) or (b) above) to whom subsection (1A) below applies;] > > (c)a child of the deceased; > > (d)any person (not being a child of the deceased) who, in the case of any marriage to which the deceased was at any time a party, was treated by the deceased as a child of the family in relation to that marriage; > > (e)any person (not being a person included in the foregoing paragraphs of this subsection) who immediately before the death of the deceased was being maintained, either wholly or partly, by the deceased; You are right that most of the exceptions that I have seen either through statute or case law relate to spouses, minor children (typically where the parent died suddenly without amending the will, when the child was small) and disabled major children. A married major woman OTH. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/19 "2015-07-29T17:06:54Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Its [fairly straightforward](http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1975/63). > > You are right that most of the exceptions that I have seen either through statute or case law relate to spouses, minor children (typically where the parent died suddenly without amending the will, when the child was small) and disabled major children. > > A married major woman OTH. Unless the act clarifies that it only means minors, then the woman is still a child of the deceased, isn’t she? ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383/20 "2015-07-29T17:19:21Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > - The lights are on > But you’re not home > Your will > Is not your own\* Ok this is bizarre, but that exact song and lyric came on over the radio as I am sitting here reading that post while waiting to get my hair cut. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-will-can-be-ignored-say-uk-judges/726383.md?page=2)