# "YOU'RE a hooker!" (OR "Buy your mate on teh intarwebz!") **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990 "2009-05-19T18:06:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/1 "2009-05-19T18:06:40Z")
> [@](#): > > It was only their third date, but Kyle had already spent almost $10,000 wooing Melissa (that day’s haul included a ring and a bracelet from Tiffany & Co.). His unusual generosity had a simple explanation. In fact, it was a crucial step in their courtship. > [@](#): > > Kyle met Melissa on a dating Web site called “Established Men,” a forum for frank talk and candid transactions where men of means are matched with stunning, young – and oftentimes penniless – women. > > Melissa, 23, is an out-of-work actress. She could be described as a Sugar Baby. > [@](#): > > Kyle, 42, is a divorced television producer who makes around half a million dollars a year. He’s the Sugar Daddy. > [@](#): > > Melissa’s arrangement with Kyle, with the ambiguous balance of money and sex it entails, is part of a growing online dating trend. Some call it practical. Others compare it with prostitution. Well, IMO prostitution is practical, but that’s beside the point. OT1H, what two consenting adults do is their own business, as long as no one is being hurt. But as upfront and reasonable as the two people in the story come across, they also come across (to me) as being somewhat in denial about the fact that he is paying for her time, presence, and sexual congress. She **is** a hooker, and he is a john. Just because it’s expensive doesn’t mean it’s different. the only real problem I have with this is the lack of complete honesty, mostly to themselves about what they are doing and what labels are appropriately applied. Anyone have any thoughts? props to anyone who gets the thread title, eh ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/2 "2009-05-19T18:12:52Z")
stupid fat fingers… 5 minute edit timer… grrrrrr [Story here](http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7614347&page=1) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/3 "2009-05-19T18:25:31Z")
How is this any different from any other traditional courtship arrangement? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/4 "2009-05-19T18:29:13Z")
Apparently prostitution is ok, as long as a man is rich enough to outright buy the woman. Those of us with more modest means who can only merely afford to rent a beautiful woman face the wrath of the law. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/5 "2009-05-19T18:31:20Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Apparently prostitution is ok, as long as a man is rich enough to outright buy the woman. Those of us with more modest means who can only merely afford to rent a beautiful woman face the wrath of the law. :eek: Yup, that’s pretty much how it’s always been. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/6 "2009-05-19T18:47:42Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > How is this any different from any other traditional courtship arrangement? Do you spend 2% of your annual income on a woman within the first 3 dates? It’s a ridiculous amount of money to spend whether she’s a whore or not. It’s stupid and impractical, aside from the prostitution angle. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/7 "2009-05-19T18:58:55Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > props to anyone who gets the thread title, eh _Arthur_? This topic reminds me of that hoary old [apocryphal story](http://www.basilsblog.com/2006/09/21/haggling-over-the-price/) where George Bernard Shaw asked the society matron whether she’d sleep with him. You’ve probably all heard it, but I can’t help myself: > [@](#): > > Aristocratic lady and Shaw are talking at a party. Shaw asks if she would sleep with him for 1-million pounds. She agrees. > > Then Shaw asks if she’d do it for five pounds. She replies, “What do you think I am?” > > Shaw says, “We’ve already established what you are, ma’am. Now we’re just haggling over the price.” ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/8 "2009-05-19T19:24:44Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Do you spend 2% of your annual income on a woman within the first 3 dates? It’s a ridiculous amount of money to spend whether she’s a whore or not. It’s stupid and impractical, aside from the prostitution angle. Depends. I assume that the payment is a sort of up-front retainer for a long-term exclusive arrangement. If so, it isn’t foolishly unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/9 "2009-05-19T19:29:11Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Do you spend 2% of your annual income on a woman within the first 3 dates? It’s a ridiculous amount of money to spend whether she’s a whore or not. It’s stupid and impractical, aside from the prostitution angle. No, but I’m also not the kind of guy that has that much money to spend. When you have that kind of money necessities become a much smaller proportion of your overall income. So yes, it’s whorish, but then so are likely half the blondes in South Beach. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/10 "2009-05-19T19:33:23Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Depends. I assume that the payment is a sort of up-front retainer for a long-term exclusive arrangement. If so, it isn’t foolishly unreasonable. You might be disappointed. > [@](#): > > Melissa said she feels her needs are currently catered to, but she said she knows she’s in a precarious position. Wouldn’t it make more sense for her to have three or four relationships with established men, just in case one of them drops out? > > “Good thought,” she said. “That is a good thought. … I could have multiple relationships and that would be considered security in the lifestyle I like to lead. I actually hadn’t really thought about, you know, having multiples, um, kind of don’t know how to answer that question. I am a little, I am now considering it …” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/11 "2009-05-19T19:38:21Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Apparently prostitution is ok, as long as a man is rich enough to outright buy the woman. Those of us with more modest means who can only merely afford to rent a beautiful woman face the wrath of the law. :eek: I’ve always tended to look at laws against prostitution as a form of price support more than anything. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/12 "2009-05-19T19:41:36Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I assume that the payment is a sort of up-front retainer for a long-term exclusive arrangement. If so, it isn’t foolishly unreasonable. Yup. Even if the woman is “considering multiples”, she’s unlikely to risk her current profitable arrangement if the guy she’s with insists strongly on exclusivity. Anyway, there’s nothing new about this situation, even though it isn’t technically prostitution as usually defined. It’s the same practice of “keeping a mistress” that’s been a standard symbiosis between wealthy men and attractive young women throughout the history of urban civilization. The only thing remotely new about it is the contact medium: men are now meeting their mistresses on the internet instead of in nightclubs or at stage doors. Big whoop. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/13 "2009-05-19T19:42:12Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You might be disappointed. It does seem like an unreasonable amount for a non-exclusive - after all, I would imagine that part of the benefit of such an arrangement is a mistress available at your convenience. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/14 "2009-05-19T19:43:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’ve always tended to look at laws against prostitution as a form of price support more than anything. As with drug laws, that’s largely true. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/15 "2009-05-19T19:45:11Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Just because it’s expensive doesn’t mean it’s different. For that price, it better be! ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/16 "2009-05-19T19:47:45Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > No, but I’m also not the kind of guy that has that much money to spend. When you have that kind of money necessities become a much smaller proportion of your overall income. So yes, it’s whorish, but then so are likely half the blondes in South Beach. It’s not THAT much money. Especially in LA. I realize the debate is supposed to be “is it prostitution or is it not”, but why not find some actual poor person with more reasonable tastes. Meet a nice girl from a bad neighborhood and set her up with a Banana Republic handbag and a '99 Saab 900. I’m going to start a dating site called [BudgetWhores.com](http://BudgetWhores.com), where you can meet attractive women willing to date men for less lavish presents. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/17 "2009-05-19T19:51:39Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yup. Even if the woman is “considering multiples”, she’s unlikely to risk her current profitable arrangement if the guy she’s with insists strongly on exclusivity. > > Anyway, there’s nothing new about this situation, even though it isn’t technically prostitution as usually defined. It’s the same practice of “keeping a mistress” that’s been a standard symbiosis between wealthy men and attractive young women throughout the history of urban civilization. The only thing remotely new about it is the contact medium: men are now meeting their mistresses on the internet instead of in nightclubs or at stage doors. Big whoop. I don’t think this is entirely accurate. Unless you want to claim that the women in nightclubs and at stage doors are also holding signs that say “will fuck you for money”. > [@](#): > > “I want someone who will take care of me financially, you treat me like a princess and I’ll make you feel like a king in more ways than one!!! I will leave you wanting more,” said one recent post. > > And then another one: “I am what you call a lady in the streets, and a freak in the sheets. I am looking for a man with money who wants to have great sex with no drama.” Even the site’s founder acknowledges that some of the women are posting that they will have sex for money, yet somehow she still denies that prostitution or pimping are involved. > [@](#): > > “Oh, well, they are referring to sexual favors, absolutely,” said Dadoun-Cohen. “That being said, those don’t stay on the Web site for all that long…” > > Dadoun-Cohen likewise rejects the label “pimp.” > > “No, I told you I am that boutique owner,” she said. “I am the personal shopper who is going to cater to what you need. I am not the pimp.” ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/18 "2009-05-19T19:52:32Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > It’s not THAT much money. Especially in LA. > > I realize the debate is supposed to be “is it prostitution or is it not”, but why not find some actual poor person with more reasonable tastes. Meet a nice girl from a bad neighborhood and set her up with a Banana Republic handbag and a '99 Saab 900. > > I’m going to start a dating site called [BudgetWhores.com](http://BudgetWhores.com), where you can meet attractive women willing to date men for less lavish presents. Actually you’d probably make a mint. Can’t use whores in the title though. But find upper-middle-class men looking for sugar-babies. It sounds like an underserved market to me! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/19 "2009-05-19T19:55:13Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I’m going to start a dating site called [BudgetWhores.com](http://BudgetWhores.com), where you can meet attractive women willing to date men for less lavish presents. Better trademark the domain “[StingyWhoremongers.com](http://StingyWhoremongers.com)” too, so the female participants will likewise know what they have to expect. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990/20 "2009-05-19T20:02:33Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > _Arthur_? No, but I’ll drop the clue that it was, in fact, a quote from a film. And the Shaw anecdote is spot on for this discussion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-hooker-or-buy-your-mate-on-teh-intarwebz/496990.md?page=2)