# You're a mad scientist -- what animal do you breed for human intelligence? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 12, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656 "2015-08-12T14:13:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/1 "2015-08-12T14:13:10Z")
Selectively breeding humans for intelligence is frowned upon, but nobody seems to care about selective breeding for non-human animals. Sheep get fluffier, cattle get beefier, dogs get doggier. You’re a mad scientist who’s managed to put together a decently sized operation with lots of loyal underlings who will carry on your work for generations to come. Your goal – in the shortest amount of time possible, use selective breeding (no direct DNA modifications) to create a non-human animal species with the ability to verbally convey its self-awareness to you. What animal do you start with? ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/2 "2015-08-12T14:20:40Z")
Why not crows? I’ve heard that they are actually pretty darn smart to begin with. It would be fascinating to see what would happen if we boosted them up to human-level intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/3 "2015-08-12T14:23:57Z")
Sharks. (a) We don’t have to worry about them taking over the world. (b) We might be able to convince them to stop eating people. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/4 "2015-08-12T14:33:24Z")
Which animal? All of them! If it works, I’d do my best to make one of Linebarger’s visions come about. Of course, I’d be one of the Lords of the Instrumentality. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/5 "2015-08-12T14:38:06Z")
Some choices: Corvids (crow family – previously mentioned… I’d choose the Common Raven, or maybe magpies 'cause they look so cool) Bears. This has the potential to end up most-likely-to-go-badly, I think. Great apes. This one has had movies made about it! Insect colonies (ants, probably) – unconventional choice. Also, I’m not sure how selective breeding might work for animals that breed in colonies. Rats. Very short generations. Dogs – they already understand a lot about human communication. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/6 "2015-08-12T14:45:00Z")
Squirrels. I’ve often thought of them as natures next monkey. There would be millions of my pretties in the trees listening in through open windows, watching everyone’s movements and silently committing acts of espionage. I’d rule the world in no time and they work for peanuts. Remember, you did say “mad” scientist. ---
**Author:** ![CheshireKat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheshirekat/32/1207_2.png) [@CheshireKat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CheshireKat)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/7 "2015-08-12T14:48:37Z")
Definitely cats. I would love to hear what they have to say about a large number of topics, especially their views on human intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/8 "2015-08-12T14:57:27Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Your goal…to create a non-human animal species\*\* _with the ability to verbally convey_\*\* its self-awareness to you. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Insect colonies (ants, probably) – unconventional choice. Also, I’m not sure how selective breeding might work for animals that breed in colonies. Do they have to verbally convey their self-awareness using their own bodies alone or can they use one of those Stephen Hawking voice boxes? Also, [there’s some evidence that animals can already talk.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vosSCmDNeW4) ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/9 "2015-08-12T14:59:49Z")
Cats. They are probably more intelligent than us now but the question becomes, given the ability of speech, would they lower their dignity to actually talk to us? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/10 "2015-08-12T15:00:45Z")
Bears. Just because the aftermath will be so cool. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/11 "2015-08-12T15:46:33Z")
Women. As Og Is My Witness, I’d Breed Women. (…what…?) ---
**Author:** ![cormac262](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@cormac262](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cormac262)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/12 "2015-08-12T15:57:57Z")
“… to create a non-human animal species with the ability to verbally convey its self-awareness to you.” Parrots. We’re pretty much already there, too. Without any selective breeding. See the work of Irene Pepperberg and her African Grey. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/13 "2015-08-12T16:08:38Z")
Crows/ravens or some sort of parrot. They can already utilize human speech to some degree and are already pretty damn smart compared to the rest of the animal kingdom. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/14 "2015-08-12T16:49:20Z")
I’m going with an octopus. They’re pretty darn smart already and it would be interesting to have an invertebrate intelligence in the world. (Just imagine the political correctness issues! No more telling people to get a spine, stop being thick-skulled, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/15 "2015-08-12T16:51:07Z")
> [@CheshireKat](#): > > Definitely cats. I would love to hear what they have to say about a large number of topics, especially their views on human intelligence. They would immediately demand to be made smarter than mere humans, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/16 "2015-08-12T16:57:23Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > I’m going with an octopus. They’re pretty darn smart already and it would be interesting to have an invertebrate intelligence in the world. (Just imagine the political correctness issues! No more telling people to get a spine, stop being thick-skulled, etc.) I’m sure intelligent octopedes will come up with insults regarding the lack of flexibility in vertebrates and our insufficient number of manipulative limbs. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/17 "2015-08-12T17:08:02Z")
Velociraptors. What could possibly go wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/18 "2015-08-12T18:29:10Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/19 "2015-08-12T18:37:03Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > They would immediately demand to be made smarter than mere humans, of course. And if you don’t… they’ll sit on your book or your keyboard until you comply. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656/20 "2015-08-12T18:39:29Z")
If you were of human intelligence, I think that you would want the ability to make and tinker with things. Not having limbs that allowed that would be annoying. Making a smart ape isn’t very novel, so I’d probably go for octoplurals.\* They’re already pretty intelligent and it would expand the range of intelligent life on the planet. They would be able to explore the ocean, build and farm things on the ocean floor, and we’d be able to set up mutually beneficial trade with them. - Insert “octopi”, “octopodes”, or “octopuses” as you prefer. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-a-mad-scientist-what-animal-do-you-breed-for-human-intelligence/727656.md?page=2)