I don’t know if dispatchers are qualified or allowed to make that sort of determination or not. I would suppose it varies by locality.
A black grandad walking a white granddaughter is unusual. I am 50 years old and I have never seen this happen in public re a older black man taking a white toddler for a stroll so I’m not going to jump on the police for asking what’s up in that scenario. We live in the real world and if the police ask questions that aren’t oppressive or racist I think people should cooperate where they can. “She’s my granddaughter” would have made this a one minute encounter instead of a pile on.
I am a white male and I a few months ago got stopped and questioned by the police for walking one evening at 9PM in my own neighborhood in that someone said a large white male was walking down the street and looked “suspicious”. I had no ID in my walking shorts but after talking to him for approx 60 seconds he was satisfied I was a non-threat and he drove away. Was I being illegally harassed for walking while being a large white male? Should I have told him MYOB instead of telling who I was and what I was doing?
Grandad may have been right to have been a bit annoyed but he was also exercising his right to be a bit of a jackass. This scenario does not peg the outrage-o- meter.
Which proves what, exactly?
You’ve offered no evidence that your race had anything to do with the officer questioning you, so so far, the answer is no.
And probably some ageism, as well. If he looks older than 40, he’s probably assumed not to be a parent, especially if the child doesn’t look racially mixed. Still not grounds to detain him, in my not-legal opinion, but I do understand why they wanted to make sure that he wasn’t a pedo making off with his latest acquisition.
No. We’ve gone over it a thousand times, with plenty of lawyers weighing in, and the only safe responses are “Am I free to go?” and “I want my lawyer present before I speak.” Anything else is more likely to get you into trouble than out of it. A pain in the ass for the cops? Sure. But since they can keep you and the kid in their sight while you all wait for a lawyer, no one’s in danger, and you’re not in danger from them.
The only thing I would have done differently was (politely) demanded a lawyer instead of getting cheeky with the cops. No good ever came of getting cheeky with cops.
Unless I rather badly misunderstood the real life scenario, it was the white grandpa walking his non-white grand child.
? Where is there a female involved in this? Who were you referring to in the last part of the last sentence?
From the OP’s linked quote:
I must be an incredibly nosy and/or direct person, because if I saw something like that out my window and it gave me any sort of pause, my first reaction wouldn’t be to call the cops, it would be to go out and say hello. You know, like talk to these people in my neighborhood who were passing my house. Say hello to the pretty child and ask, “Oh, is this your grandpa?” Assess the situation before assuming the worst.
Interestingly, this happened to me, many years ago when my great uncle was visiting from England. There was no racial difference involved, but a busy-body neighbor called the cops on him for the crime of taking me and my sister for a walk. The RCMP showed up and questioned him. He was fond of telling this story when he got home to England - he told everyone “I know why the mounties always get their man. They arrest everyone!”
Probably not - I imagine that the fact that grandfather and granddaughter were of different races meant that the caller found it suspicious.
Being a different race than your grandchildren is certainly not unheard of - when I become a grandparent, my grandchildren will be racially different from me - but it is not the norm, either. Thus I expect that the 9-11 caller thought it more likely than average that the older man and young child were strangers to each other.
Which is likely wrong. I have no figures to back me up, but I would bet that grandfather-granddaughter pairings where they are of different races is far more common than stranger abductions where kidnapper and kidnappee are different races.
But I am not sure that it is even possible to conduct even a routine field interrogation like this one without coming across as confrontational (on the cops’ part). And three squad cars is a truly ridiculous level of overkill.
If the police really did have to respond, maybe asking for the name of the child, and running a quick check to see if Grandpa had any outstanding warrants or past difficulties with children, would have been sufficient.
That having been said, I don’t see what was gained from Grandpa standing on his rights. Not that he was wrong to do so, but a simple “I’m her grandpa” was an available response. And it may have cleared things up with less offense on both sides.
No, he was not wrong to have insisted on his full rights. And it is possible that the granddaughter might have wound up less frightened of the police if the lesson taught was that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. And maybe “See, honey, the nice policeman wants you to be safe -if you are ever in trouble, ask him for help” is a better lesson than “See that man in a uniform? He is looking to bring you down”.
Obviously, a lot of this depends on the attitude of the police in return.
When Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince came out, I went down to my local bookstore and waited in line at midnight to get my copy. So I was walking home at 2:00am, and the police stopped me. I had no wallet with me, no ID, nothing but some cash, a plastic bag, and my house keys. And I told the officer that I had no ID. And he asked me where I was going, and what I was doing walking about at two in the morning.
Now, I could have stood on my rights and told him it was none of his business. But I didn’t. I told him that I had been waiting in line to buy Harry Potter and showed him the books I bought. And you could see the expression in his eyes shift instantly from “Possibly Dangerous, Approach with Caution” to “Harmless Eccentric, Get Rid of Him”. And I was on my way within thirty seconds, and no harm done.
Now I am lily-white, and my suburb is lily-white. Crime in my area is mostly shoplifting at the local Target and traffic tickets. So perhaps the attitude of the local gendarmerie is going to be different than it would be in some part of the world where middle-aged lunatics like myself are out buying crack instead of Harry Potter paraphernalia (a more insidious addiction by far). But making it clear that you have nothing to hide when in fact you have nothing to hide sometimes - not always - makes things go more smoothly.
Here’s a link to the story, btw, http://thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1257
I guess maybe I’m naive, but I don’t see why it’s so wrong to just tell the cops what they need to know, in a case like this. I’m supposed to pay for a lawyer each and every time a cop stops me with a question? Not that I’m ever stopped by the cops, really, but hypothetically speaking?
You better hope the kid liked his or her last birthday present or the response will be “No, we met on the internet!”
The grandpa was absolutely right to assert his rights. What is the use of having rights if no one uses them?
The police were totally wrong.
Well, having one in the family helps. 
But mostly the cops make their little huddle and mutter into their radios for a few minutes and tell you you’re free to go because they know they don’t have anything that warrants a legal detention. I’ve had that happen twice, and once had cops burst into my apartment “in hot pursuit” of a video store thief. They left in short order, after waking my kid and scaring the piss out of us. I showed them my ID, which had that address on it, and told them if they needed anything else, they’d have to make an arrest or wait for my lawyer. They asked why my door was unlocked. I told them they’d have to make an arrest or wait for my lawyer. They asked why there were fresh footsteps in the snow leading up to my apartment. I told them they’d have to make an arrest or wait for my lawyer. They left.
I’m not advocating rudeness or insubordination. But if you don’t respect your rights, no one else will. It’s like being aware that a real estate agent represents the seller, not the buyer. (Seller’s agents excepted, of course.) Sure, she might be very helpful to you as a buyer, but at the end of the day, she’s not got your best interest at heart. Forget that, and you could get screwed.
ESPECIALLY considering the recent shootout in the area, I’d consider myself a suspect and anything I said fuel for their suspicion and want legal representation unless explicitly told otherwise - and the only way I’m trusting that is if I’m told I’m free to go.
Name, rank and serial number. Or, in this case, name, address and birthdate. That’s all they need to know and that’s all they’re getting.
Mainly because they don’t NEED to know it. They have no evidence of a crime and no reasonable suspicion one is occurring or has occurred. They can do their job perfectly well by taking the names, running a quick warrant check, and then saying “Sorry for the interruption, you folks have a nice day.”
The vigilance of a free man is the price which must be paid for protection against a police state. Law enforcement officers MUST be held to a high standard and detaining people or performing investigative actions beyond what is warranted by the evidence or reasonable suspicion should not be tolerated.
Enjoy,
Steven
I don’t think the police had any right to investigate by race. Was there a report of a missing child matching her description? Apparently the police didn’t think so or they would have said so. So No.
These cops did a horrible disservice and dishonor to the badge. They’ve shamed good cops everywhere and should face severe consequences. Race is a protected class. Including the right to be with your grand kids regardless of race.
The Grandpa did the right thing refusing to roll over and play dead. Had he stated he was their grandpa he’d have enabled them to harass more multiracial families.
Now it’s been brought to public attention and hopefully they’ll make an example of the officers in question.
I think he set a good example for her to stand up for herself. Kids pick up on the attitudes and personalities of the people that raise them. Stuff like that will teach her how to stand up for herself when she’s older. She has her brave grandpa who fended off three hostile scary cops to look up to!
This wasn’t profiling by the police, this was in response to a call by a citizen of suspicious activity. The citizen may have been profiling but the police are responding to a call of suspicious activity. This occurred after schools were shut down because of SHOOTINGS so a frightened and alert neighborhood of people are doing what they’re told to do, report anything suspicious.
In my metro area there have been a rash of attempted child abductions this year so a single man with a 2 year old is going to get extra scrutiny regardless of any other circumstance.
Nothing wrong with it-as long as it’s your choice to do so. Everything wrong with it if the cop puts on an attitude when you politely refuse. In general, police have no right to compel you to tell them anything (beyond, in some states, name and address)-and in the event they do put you under compulsion to answer (such as through subpoena), you have a number of rights that you ought to exercise.
I don’t have any problem with someone who chooses to do so-I will, on occasion. I have a problem when police don’t understand I have a right not to do so (either from basic freedom, or fifth amendment (and sixth amendment, if you count saying “i’m not going to say anything till my lawyer gets here”).
I also understand that police are out there to arrest people, and may well not have my interests in mind when they’re asking me questions. If I am going to answer questions when there’s any possibility they suspect me, I’m going to have a lawyer to keep my interests in mind.
IANAL, this is not legal advice, if you need legal advice, talk to a lawyer licensed in your jurisdiction, etc, etc.
The functional difference between the two is? If you take race out it what’s the suspicious activity?
Ah do you think the town should investigate every grandpa out with his grand daughter? If not what makes this one different?
Clearly this is some bigot using the cops to harass. The cops have no business harassing anyone about race.