# You're beseiged by a merciless, sadistic enemy. Do you fight to the last, or take your own life? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 14, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267 "2015-09-14T21:28:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gothic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Gothic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gothic)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/41 "2015-09-15T12:49:04Z")
Fight to the end hand to hand. I have watched poignant documentaries on Afghanistan and don’t see anyone quitting on each other. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/42 "2015-09-15T13:12:33Z")
And so when man and horse go down beneath a saber keen Or in roaring charge of fierce melee you stop a bullet clean And hostiles come to roast your flesh just empty your canteen And put your pistol to your head and go to Fiddler’s Green. Slightly modified last stanza from “Fiddler’s Green” ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/43 "2015-09-15T13:37:56Z")
I’m old enough to remember Captain Mainwaring’s inspirational speech to the Walmington-on-Sea Platoon in which he declared that they would certainly fight to the last bullet - and they’d save that last bullet for themselves. At this point he asks Sergeant Wilson about their ammunition supplies and Wilson oh-so-mildly tells him “One bullet each, sir”. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/44 "2015-09-15T13:45:22Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > I’m reminded of the historian Josephus, who was part of a garrison that was besieged by a Roman force in the First Jewish-Roman War. > > At a certain point, Josephus was trapped in a cave with a small group of survivors. Knowing that his fellows were of much too stern moral fiber to give themselves up, and that fighting to the death or collective suicide were the only options, Josephus suggested that they should all go out by way of suicide pact. They all stood in a circle, went eeny, meeny, miny, moe, and killed each other, one by one, until there were only two guys left. By complete coincidence, I swear, no tampering with the order people were counted off in at all, no siree, Josephus was one of the final two (aka playing “Roman roulette”, or the [Josephus problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_problem)). He suggested to his buddy that they should surrender, which the buddy agreed to. Then he told the Romans: “I bet you need a turncoat local to negotiate with the guys holed up in Jerusalem, right? I’m really good at that.” > > Or at least that’s how the story goes. The rest, punningly, is history. I had never heard that before, but it’s nice to know that there are more heroes than Jesus in the bible. I’ll probably be suggesting that S:t Josephus become the guardian saint of Sweden from now on, sounds like a man after our own tastes. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/45 "2015-09-15T13:47:34Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Why do you believe everyone should consider suicide? It’s good for the soul to reflect upon the mortality of the body. It also brings to the front the most important choice you ever make, you choose to be alive or you don’t. Accepting that life is a choice is an important part of maturation, and will bring you out of the victim state more often than not. Also, everyone has a suicidal urge, it’s part of the makeup of the psyche. It’s better to look at these things than repress them. We all have monsters inside us, it’s good to bring them out into the light. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/46 "2015-09-15T14:02:24Z")
Are we allowed to take a few potshots at the hypothetical on our way out? I’d wait for the doctor to off himself, pump his body full of laxatives and any other nasty stuff I can find in the dispensary and then fling the body over the walls. Hopefully the enemy will stop for one last picnic… ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/47 "2015-09-15T15:14:29Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > I had never heard that before, but it’s nice to know that there are more heroes than Jesus in the bible. I’ll probably be suggesting that S:t Josephus become the guardian saint of Sweden from now on, sounds like a man after our own tastes. 😉 1. Josephus is not a character in the Bible. 2. As a non-converted Jew, he’s hardly eligible to be a Christian saint and would probably object to any such designation quite strenuously. 3. I may have been whooshed here. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/48 "2015-09-15T15:27:47Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > It’s good for the soul to reflect upon the mortality of the body. It also brings to the front the most important choice you ever make, you choose to be alive or you don’t. Accepting that life is a choice is an important part of maturation, and will bring you out of the victim state more often than not. > Also, everyone has a suicidal urge, it’s part of the makeup of the psyche. It’s better to look at these things than repress them. We all have monsters inside us, it’s good to bring them out into the light. Yeah, thats bullshit. I have reflected on my own mortality many times. It’s why I have life insurance, why my wife and I have designated my best friend and her wife as guardians to our kids in the event of our untimely deaths (and vice versa); why I wear seat belts and bicycle helmets, why I monitor my blood sugar and blood pressure. But I can do all that without considering suicide. Death will come whether I will it or not. That is no reason to invite the fucker in, or not to punch him in the balls when he peeks around the corner. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/49 "2015-09-15T15:34:37Z")
I, like Han Solo, do not like to be told the odds. I’ll fight on hanging to a shred of hope, but try to keep one bullet. Just in case. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/50 "2015-09-15T15:35:27Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Yeah, thats bullshit. > > I have reflected on my own mortality many times. It’s why I have life insurance, why my wife and I have designated my best friend and her wife as guardians to our kids in the event of our untimely deaths (and vice versa); why I wear seat belts and bicycle helmets, why I monitor my blood sugar and blood pressure. But I can do all that without considering suicide. > > Death will come whether I will it or not. That is no reason to invite the fucker in, or not to punch him in the balls when he peeks around the corner. OTOH, I saw both grandfathers, a beloved great-uncle, and my father all die protracted, unpleasant deaths that took every bit of their dignity from them. Their last days, years in some cases, were nothing but a fog of confusion, pain, and humiliation. Sometimes it is better to invite Death in and greet him as a friend. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/51 "2015-09-15T15:36:35Z")
I considered suicide, like many people, as a teen. Life was rough. But even then I knew I was never serious. I don’t have any moral problems with suicide and think it should be offered much more freely in our society. I think that Robin Williams should have been able to choose , after settling his affairs and saying goodbye, to step into a suicide booth or whatever. I hope to one day be able to make the choice and not be tortured on machines because a bunch of do-gooder moral schmucks think it’s better for me to live. And in this scenario I still wouldn’t off myself. There’s always hope, right? Besides every person who kills themselves is one less person to fight, and frankly, I’d consider that cowardice and running away. I’d stay with my mates and I’d fight to the death. I’m with the leader. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/52 "2015-09-15T15:37:09Z")
I fight until I can’t fight anymore, and then I keep fighting. If they want to kill me, then I refuse to do their job for them. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/53 "2015-09-15T15:47:51Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > OTOH, I saw both grandfathers, a beloved great-uncle, and my father all die protracted, unpleasant deaths that took every bit of their dignity from them. Their last days, years in some cases, were nothing but a fog of confusion, pain, and humiliation. Sometimes it is better to invite Death in and greet him as a friend. Oh, I’m not against euthanasia. When all that awaits one is intractable and severe pain followed by death, checking out early can be a valid option. I’d say that suicide is a rational choice in the hypo, and in your grandparents’ case. It was Stoneburg’s general sentiment I oppose. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/54 "2015-09-15T17:48:38Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > OTOH, I saw both grandfathers, a beloved great-uncle, and my father all die protracted, unpleasant deaths that took every bit of their dignity from them. Their last days, years in some cases, were nothing but a fog of confusion, pain, and humiliation. Sometimes it is better to invite Death in and greet him as a friend. Quite so. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/55 "2015-09-15T23:30:48Z")
Pneumonia is/was sometimes called ‘Old people’s friend’ - most frequently by the nurses who care for the dying-very-slowly folks. When you can no longer move or even flex muscles, your lungs will fill up. At that point, death becomes merciful. It shouldn’t be too hard to see that it can be merciful under even less unpleasant circumstances. Thinking you will always be in control of your fate is a conceit of the young. Grown-ups should know better. ---
**Author:** ![Collaborator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Collaborator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Collaborator)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/56 "2015-09-15T23:49:55Z")
People that picked anything other than 1 or 2 are the reason evil continues to exist on the planet today. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/57 "2015-09-16T00:00:19Z")
I’ll die fighting and the legends should record my last words\* as “Valhalla, I am coming.” The actual words will probably be something like “Ow! Fuck! That hurts.”, but legends generally prevent a more glorious version of reality. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/58 "2015-09-16T00:19:31Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > but legends generally prevent a more glorious version of reality. Let’s do this. LEEEEEEE-ROYYYYYYYY JENKINSSSSS!!! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/59 "2015-09-16T01:05:47Z")
“Alright. Who wants some?” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267/60 "2015-09-16T01:17:28Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Ladyfingers On Spotted Dick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-beseiged-by-a-merciless-sadistic-enemy-do-you-fight-to-the-last-or-take-your-own-life/731267.md?page=4)