# You're Jimmy Carter. Hostages have been taken in Iran. What do you do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547 "2011-03-13T16:26:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/21 "2011-03-16T02:21:22Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > It was hyperbole, of course not however much they want, but they deserve something for essentially being an oppressed colony of the US. And it is a reflection of what I think is fair and what the US owes them I agree with you on a moral level (and it wouldn’t surprise me if Carter did, too), but I meant my OP more from a practical perspective: full on invasion would not work, targeted strike didn’t work; what else is there? If you go hat in hand, how much do you give up, and where does it leave you (Jimmy Carter) and the US? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/22 "2011-03-16T03:30:43Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I agree with you on a moral level (and it wouldn’t surprise me if Carter did, too), but I meant my OP more from a practical perspective: full on invasion would not work, targeted strike didn’t work; what else is there? If you go hat in hand, how much do you give up, and where does it leave you (Jimmy Carter) and the US? Hopefully in a better moral position. I’ve never bought the fear that Communism was such a big threat. Maybe it’s because I didn’t grow up in those times, but I don’t fear radical Islam either, despite what small successes they’ve been able to accomplish. Let Iran or Vietnam or other countries fall to Soviet influence. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/23 "2011-03-16T04:35:14Z")
Some of the armchair tough guys in this thread (it’s easy to be brave with other people’s lives), should take a moment to imagine themselves as one of the hostages (or as a family member of one of the hostages), and then decide what you would want the President to do. Carter’s issue was not fear of a fight (of course not, the US had vastly superior military technology), but with getting the hostages out alive. Military strikes (especially carpet bombing) were just going to get the hostages killed, which was exactly _opposite_ of the goal. The truth is that Carter was making the best decisions availiable, with the best possible advice, and nobody else could have done anything differently. Reagan (that fucking poseur) wasn’t going to bomb anything either. There wasn’t any magical solution that would have gotten the hostages out alive without negotiation (and America sure as hell does negotiate with terrorists. Reagan was a master of it). There wasn’t any military solution. All that was available was making a deal while simultaneously taking a chance on a covert rescue mission (a mission that was a longshot from the get go), which is exactly what Carter did. Nobody here is going to be smarter or more informed or have a better idea than the best available military, intelligence and diplomatic experts of the time. There was just no good solution. It would be better to ask what could have been done on the front end to prevent the situation from ever happening in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/24 "2011-03-16T04:51:27Z")
Having the benefit of Carter’s mistakes, the morning after hostage seizure I would ask Congress for a declaration of war. Occupy the country and shoot anyone who tried to stop it. Take all the oil. And by all, I mean every last drop of it and then end the occupation. We would lose all the hostages and have very bad relations with the Soviets, but it would stop that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/25 "2011-03-16T04:54:59Z")
What you you want the President to do if you were a hostage? ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/26 "2011-03-16T15:39:02Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Meanwhile, can someone enlighten me on the straight dope as to how we did secure the hostages release? As the release came minutes after Regan was sworn in, I had long thought it well settled that the new Regan administration had promised payment (money or weapons) in exchange for the release. Recent documentaries on Reagan, though, have left me uncertain - while it is acknowledged that there were guns for hostages between the US and Iran, that apparently came later in the 1980’s, and was the first half of Iran-Contra. So, what deal was made in 1981? (and by whom; did the Carter administration actually secure the release?) My understanding is that negotiations were going on but Iran waited until Carter was out of office to release the hostages to embarrass him and the US. There were a lot of rumors like they were afraid of Reagan or Reagan cut a backroom deal but the truth makes more sense. They were done with the hostages and wanted one good jab at the USA through Carter. The “guns for hostages” deal came later with different hostages. There Reagan basically said one thing (no negotiations with hostage takers) and did the exact opposite (sold arms to the enemy in exchange for hostages). In Carter’s place I would have negotiated but would have refused to make any concessions or deals. But I wouldn’t have let the Shah into the US either. But I also wouldn’t have supported the Shah in the first place. Our involvement in Iran, and so many other places, goes way back. Mistakes were made. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/27 "2011-03-16T16:06:58Z")
Weren’t we covertly supporting Iraq back then in their war with Iran? Perhaps we didn’t go far enough. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/28 "2011-03-16T16:11:18Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Having the benefit of Carter’s mistakes, the morning after hostage seizure I would ask Congress for a declaration of war. Occupy the country and shoot anyone who tried to stop it. Take all the oil. And by all, I mean every last drop of it and then end the occupation. We would lose all the hostages and have very bad relations with the Soviets, but it would stop that sort of thing. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/29 "2011-03-16T16:12:22Z")
Carter did the right thing. He got the hostages out alive (unless you want to quibble about the moments between Ray-Gun’s inauguration and the release. He didn’t start a war. His attempt at a rescue was ill-fated but I think worth a try. Going in with guns blazing would be moronic at best. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/30 "2011-03-16T16:20:00Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > Sent the Shah back to Iran and apologised for organising the coup that put him in power and propping him up for decades and the hostages would have been released. Kill the 1979 revolution with kindness and by now it would have fallen without the Great Satan to propagandise against. Of course this would have at the very least unsettled all the other dictatorships in the region that we prop up and undermined our general regional policy so we didn’t do it. I agree that yours would have been the just course of action. Unfortunately, the Republican Party would have made a big campaign issue of it, and Ronald Reagan’s margin of victory over Jimmy Carter would have been even larger. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/31 "2011-03-16T16:20:15Z")
Is putting on a sweater an option? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/32 "2011-03-16T16:32:50Z")
The Iranian hostage crises is a reason I am glad that I am not President of the United States. Jimmy Carter did not have desirable options. Doing nothing made him look weak. His ill fated rescue effort could have resulted in all of the hostages being killed. We should have learned from the wars in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq is that the U.S. military is not good at occupying a hostile population that is willing to fight back. What we did learn during the War in the Gulf is that a country like Iran cannot stand up to the U.S. Air Force. The best option I can think of is that the Carter administration should have told the new leaders of Iran that if they killed the hostages the U.S. Air Force would destroy as much of the Iranian military from the air as possible, while also destroying electric power plants. At the time there still were reasonable and realistic leaders of the Iranian Revolution who may have anticipated an Iraqi invasion. The threat I describe would have been effective with them. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/33 "2011-03-16T16:50:35Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Having the benefit of Carter’s mistakes, the morning after hostage seizure I would ask Congress for a declaration of war. Occupy the country and shoot anyone who tried to stop it. Take all the oil. And by all, I mean every last drop of it and then end the occupation. We would lose all the hostages and have very bad relations with the Soviets, but it would stop that sort of thing. The land mass of Iran is greater than that of Afghanistan and Iraq. [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2147rank.html?countryName=Iran&countryCode=ir®ionCode=me&rank=18#ir](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2147rank.html?countryName=Iran&countryCode=ir®ionCode=me&rank=18#ir) The population of Iran is also greater than the combined population of those two countries. [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2119rank.html?countryName=Afghanistan&countryCode=af®ionCode=sas&rank=40#af](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2119rank.html?countryName=Afghanistan&countryCode=af®ionCode=sas&rank=40#af) I do not think an occupation would have been a good idea. Killing every Iranian who opposed us would have unified the Islamic world against us during a time when we still had to contend with the Soviet Union. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/34 "2011-03-16T16:50:39Z")
I’m sure that assurances of that sort were made to Iran at the time, and it was really the best bargaining chip that the US had. The hostages could only stay our hands if they were alive. If they were killed, the Iranians knew (and I have no doubt US negotiators made it as clear as a bell if they didn’t know) that there would be hell to pay. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547/35 "2011-03-16T17:57:58Z")
The only thing I could say I would have done differently is not trust the generals who said they could conduct a successful rescue mission. I would have considered discussing with Iran the extradition of the Shah, unfreezing financial assets, and official recognition if they could act like a legitimate government and stop holding hostages. Maybe this was done, and the Revolutionary Government said no. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-jimmy-carter-hostages-have-been-taken-in-iran-what-do-you-do/574547.md?page=1)