# You're not a good Christian... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 11, 1999, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913 "1999-10-11T15:44:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/1 "1999-10-11T15:44:00Z")
From [http://www.wpni.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-10/05/044l-100599-idx.html](http://www.wpni.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-10/05/044l-100599-idx.html) : > [@](#): > > “Creationism,” said the Rev. Terry Glidden, leaning halfway over his desk, “is everything. If we take that away then we’re left with a chance-filled life, a meaningless existence.” > > An intense evangelical preacher who rarely blinks, Glidden explained that the Bible predicts evolutionists, in Romans Chapter 1: > > “Professing to be wise, they became fools. . . . For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator.” > > It also predicts God’s vengeance on them. “For this reason, God gave them over to degrading passions,” he read. “Men abandoned their natural function and burned in their desire toward one another.” So according to what this guy says, you cannot believe that God created the Big Bang and be a good Christian. If you decide to look at scientific evidence and realize that it is correct, “God will enact his vengeance upon you,” even if you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord & Savior, Inc. It is absolute “truths” like this that turn people off from Christianity, and make ALL of it’s followers look like mind-melded zealots. I know a very good Christian who believes God created the whole universe, and helped things evolve, but he does not think the universe is any less than billions of years old. Guess he’s going to Hell… * * * Yer pal, Satan ---
**Author:** ![Occam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Occam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Occam)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/2 "1999-10-11T16:25:00Z")
In order to believe, I think one must put so many ‘blinders’ on to the facts like you’ve just pointed out that one doesn’t wonder if they are blind completly, ie. ‘blind faith’. Ignore what heathens and sinners say to you about knowing the true way. Ignore what you can see for your own eyes. Ignore what some equally faithful people say about your holy book. Sometimes Ignore the Holy Book until it coincidedes with what you believe is gods chosen path for you. Just believe and you will go to heaven. Right. Ignore your roomates. Ignore that you can see 70 feet down from your 5th story apartment. Ignore the pictures you’ve seen of people crushed. Just believe you can fly. That’s all you have to do, just believe. Hmmm… I think the late J.C. was wacked out on crystal meth. 2000 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/3 "1999-10-11T16:28:00Z")
What’s the matter, Satan? Do you miss Adam/ARG220? It isn’t as though we haven’t already had contributors to this Forum who actually believed the way Glidden does. Rather than posting for Adam, why don’t you just ask God to tell Adam to post, again? * * * Tom~ ---
**Author:** ![Pickman\_s\_Model](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Pickman\_s\_Model](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pickman_s_Model)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/4 "1999-10-11T16:55:00Z")
Did God create the world in six literal days, or did He take billions of years, allowing the DNA to work its way up from primeval puddles of snail snot to human beings? Hard to say, since I wasn’t there at the instant it all commenced. God could’ve done it either way; He isn’t limited. Whichever way He did is fine with me; as is whichever way people choose to believe He did it. [quote] So according to what this guy says, you cannot believe that God created the Big Bang and be a good Christian. [quote] Sure you can. Even the Pope says so. This fellow may not believe it, but that’s only his opinion; he doesn’t speak for the rest of us. > [@](#): > > If you decide to look at scientific evidence and realize that it is correct, “God will enact his vengeance upon you,” even if you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord & Savior, Inc. “Lord and Savior, Inc.”? Wow, I knew the televangelists were touting themselves, but I never realized they’d gone quite _that_ far! As for scientific evidence and divine vengeance, they’re two different things. Divine vengeance is reserved for those who willfully disobey God (and let’s not revisit _that_ particular debate again, if that’s okay–we already did that one, and it waxes both redundant and wearisome); but acceptance of scientific evidence is not a sin, or at least it wasn’t the last time I checked… > [@](#): > > It is absolute “truths” like this that turn people off from Christianity, and make ALL of it’s followers look like mind-melded zealots. _ALL_ of them? That’s a rather sweeping statement, don’tcha think? I could say the same thing about Pat Buchanan and _all_ members of the Republican Party, or Marilyn Manson and _all_ devotees of rock music. “I have one example of a fringe extremist here, who declares A, B, and C to be true; therefore, ALL members of the particular organization in question believe exactly the same thing—they are all mind-melded zealots.” Everybody likes to feel like they belong to something, but please do not bunch me in with our friend described in your post above, thank you very much. You can’t apply examples of extremists to all Christians. [quote] I know a very good Christian who believes God created the whole universe, and helped things evolve, but he does not think the universe is any less than billions of years old.\* I know one who believes that, too-----me. (I do not, however, make any claim to being a “very good Christian”. I am a very, very, poor one, at best.) > [@](#): > > Guess he’s going to Hell… Hopefully not, but if he did, it certainly wouldn’t be for belief in evolution, _or_ in creationism. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 1999, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/5 "1999-10-12T05:36:00Z")
Oh, PM, you mistake our Infernal Friend’s motives. In point of fact there are a **lot** of people who sincerely believe the stuff he posted. A prominent state representative down here is a devout literalist and regularly makes obnoxious noises about including unchristian stuff like evolution and the big bang in the state curriculum. And the result is that nonbelievers of all stripes, hearing these idiots and not folks like you, me, Jodi, and Tom, think that **all** Christians think like these goombahs. Sheesh…does this make me a devil’s advocate? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 1999, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/6 "1999-10-12T05:47:00Z")
I think the verse meant they worshipped trees and bushes and stuff like that.(creation).Yep,we do need arg back here to bounce this stuff off of( or anything else to bounce off of him!) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 1999, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/7 "1999-10-12T05:51:00Z")
Awful lot of Republicans in trouble, then, if St. Paul is condemning people for worshiping Bushes. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/8 "1999-10-11T18:02:00Z")
Or quails! ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/9 "1999-10-11T18:07:00Z")
From the article that Satan cited: > [@](#): > > “The God that created the earth also created the fossils,” Smith said. “And he can put them anywhere he wants to.” Wasn’t that a quote from _Inherit the Wind_ when the biblethumping guy goes on the stand? They’re trying to make a monkey out of you… ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/10 "1999-10-11T18:08:00Z")
Yes,God created the fossils.Thats why Jesse Helms is with us today 😃 * * * BURP! “excuse me.”;D ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/11 "1999-10-11T18:16:00Z")
No, orangecakes, fossils are extracted from rocks, not found under them… ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/12 "1999-10-11T19:01:00Z")
I normally stay out of these threads for obvious reasons, but this one caused me to spurt my coffee – \<\< It also predicts God’s vengeance on them. “For this reason, God gave them over to degrading passions,” he read. “Men abandoned their natural function and burned in their desire toward one another.” \>\> Hey, so the punishment for believing in evolution is that you’ll be **gay**?? What about women who believe in evolution? And does it work the other way around? Is the punishment for being gay that you’ll evolve? Man, you gotta admit, when it comes to being both scarey and funny at the same time, you can’t beat the fundamentalists! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/13 "1999-10-11T19:03:00Z")
I’ve been waiting for an opportunity to throw this quote in. Thanks, Dex… (but put down your coffee) “The universe is not only queerer than you imagine; it is queerer than you **can** imagine.” - J.B.S. Haldane ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/14 "1999-10-11T21:08:00Z")
If we allow the teaching of Evolution in our schools, it’s only a matter of time before they’ll start teaching heresies like Heliocentrism and religious toleration! ---
**Author:** ![Pickman\_s\_Model](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Pickman\_s\_Model](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pickman_s_Model)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/15 "1999-10-11T21:19:00Z")
My apologies to the Dark One if I misread the intent of his post. FWIW, I’m no big fan of guys like Senator Helms either, although he does have a sort of obsolete charm----reminds me of the days when George Wallace and Orval Faubus were in their prime. They were nothing if not entertaining. > [@](#): > > Awful lot of Republicans in trouble, then, if St. Paul is condemning people for worshiping Bushes. Does this mean if we tied George Dubya to a stake and lit him up with coal tar, we’d have a “burning Bush”? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/16 "1999-10-11T21:23:00Z")
I especially loved this: > [@](#): > > But then she remembers another night, many years ago, when she was in college and working in Topeka, and drove home across the Kansas Avenue bridge. Fifteen minutes later, she took off her coat, turned on the TV, and saw the news that the bridge had collapsed, tossing several cars into the river, and drowning the drivers. > “When I look back I know God was there,” she said. “And he was telling me, there’s a reason for me to be here, even if only he knows the reason.” Yes, Ma’am, that’s exactly right. God has something special in mind for you, so he delayed the bridge collapse and killed all those other people instead. I guess it didn’t occur to him to make the bridge, uh, not collapse at all. Some God you got there, lady. Does he make your favorite football team win, too? ## BTW, **tracer** , that was perfect! So who’s going to write a letter to the Kansas School Board asking for its position on Heliocentrism? Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 1999, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/17 "1999-10-11T21:37:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Does he make your favorite football team win, too? [digression] One of my favorite comedy bits involved someone (and if anyone can remember who, I’d appreciate it) pointing out how amusing a blend Christianity and sports can be sometimes. I’m paraphrasing wildly here: “It’s funny, you know…you interview the winning football team after the Super Bowl, and all of the players make sure they mention that they never would have gotten this wonderful victory without God’s help. You never see anything like this when you interview the losing team. ‘Yeah, and we would have won this game, if Jesus hadn’t made me fumble!’” An interesting observation. If I believed in God, and I had a string of bad luck, you’d best believe I’d be blaming him just as much as anyone else. I’d have made a terrible Job. [/digression] ---
**Author:** ![Temujin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Temujin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Temujin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 1999, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/18 "1999-10-12T06:18:00Z")
> [@](#): > > … the result is that nonbelievers of all stripes, hearing these idiots and not folks like you, me, Jodi, and Tom, think that all Christians think like these goombahs. Most of the Christians I know believe in evolution. Moreover, most of them are politically left-of-center and socially conscious, as well as open-minded about others. I’d like to believe that you and Brian have underestimated the intelligence of non-Christians. Not all non-Christians who hear people like the Rev. Terry Glidden conclude that all Christians are “mind-melded zealots.” But non-Christians who are predisposed to bigotry might arrive at that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Surgoshan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Surgoshan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surgoshan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 1999, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/19 "1999-10-12T07:13:00Z")
You know, I don’t think I see a single Christian opinion on this page. What happened? Were they all driven away? I must say that although I’m not Christian, you don’t seem to be any more charitable or open-minded than they are. They believe in a god and you don’t (please forgive me if you aren’t atheistic), and that’s where you draw the line. You’ve no more proof than they and are just as close-minded to argument. You dismiss their arguments as rubbish based on hearsay and faith. They dismiss yours as heretical and faithless. Neither accepts any possibility of truth in the other. Quite frankly, it depresses me. I find it difficult to express. Are all of those who call themselves free-thinking individuals as close-minded as those I see here? Do you object to being called close-minded? Look at this “Great Debate!” It started off as a sally against someone in the opposite camp and quickly devolved to insults to prominent figures. If this is a Great Debate, then I’ve lost all faith in the Straight Dope Message Board. ---
**Author:** ![Temujin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Temujin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Temujin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 1999, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913/20 "1999-10-12T07:21:00Z")
Hi Surgoshan, Which post (or posts) were you responding to? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-not-a-good-christian/16913.md?page=2)