# You're on a criminal jury. WOuld you want to know if there's a mandatory prison sentence? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 4, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-a-criminal-jury-would-you-want-to-know-if-theres-a-mandatory-prison-sentence/566423 "2011-01-04T23:41:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-a-criminal-jury-would-you-want-to-know-if-theres-a-mandatory-prison-sentence/566423/61 "2011-01-07T22:11:15Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > And you would still be wrong. Americans have the right to bear arms; we don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-a-criminal-jury-would-you-want-to-know-if-theres-a-mandatory-prison-sentence/566423/62 "2011-01-08T00:45:38Z")
I sure want to know. I cannot comprehend people whose view of innocence or guilt is absolute. And if the penalty was, IMHO, too draconian, I would vote to acquit. Here is a case in point. This happened in Saskatchewan, I believe, maybe 15 or 20 years. A man, a farmer, had a 10 year old daughter who was severely retarded and in constant and apparently severe pain. Finally the man could take it no longer and killed her. By CO poisoning in his garage. The first trial ended in a hung jury. At the second trial, the jury asked the judge what the minimum sentence was. The judge refused to say. Finally, the convicted. Had I been on the jury and known what the minimum was (life with possible parole after 10 years, which is what happened) I would have either voted to acquit or voted guilty to a lesser offense (if that was possible). Instead they voted guilty but recommended that he spend no more than a year in the clink. The judge actually sentenced him to that, despite the law, but on appeal the minimum sentence was imposed. A travesty of justice IMHO. It brings the law into disrepute. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-a-criminal-jury-would-you-want-to-know-if-theres-a-mandatory-prison-sentence/566423/63 "2011-01-10T17:05:56Z")
How can you reasonably keep the laws regarding minimum sentences secret? The sentencing laws are public and for anyone to find. [QUOTE=MLK] The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that “an unjust law is no law at all.” [/quote] Jurors should weigh the law. If it is so in sync with societal norms there should be no difference. If however the [jury believes the law unjust](http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/jury-nullification-in-action-montana-jury-pool-refuses-to-convict-for-marijuana-possession/), they should act accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-a-criminal-jury-would-you-want-to-know-if-theres-a-mandatory-prison-sentence/566423/64 "2011-01-10T18:53:23Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Here is a case in point. This happened in Saskatchewan, I believe, maybe 15 or 20 years. A man, a farmer, had a 10 year old daughter who was severely retarded and in constant and apparently severe pain. Finally the man could take it no longer and killed her… That’s what jury nullification is for. No need to know the possible sentence. Just vote Not Guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-a-criminal-jury-would-you-want-to-know-if-theres-a-mandatory-prison-sentence/566423/65 "2011-01-10T19:33:33Z")
To those who support knowing the sentencing guidelines before delivering a verdict, principally because of the moral issues involved: Are you forthright about your views in voir dire? Each time I’ve been called for jury duty, the judge has clearly stated that potential jurors are under the obligation not just to answer questions truthfully, but to be forthcoming about work, experiences, family relations, political views, or other factors that may affect one’s ability to render a verdict. So, if the judge asks John if he has been a victim of a crime, a truthful answer is not just “No, I have never been a victim of a crime,” but also “But my sister was assaulted last year and I’m really angry at violent criminals because of that.” So I’m curious if you are forthcoming about your views on what jurors ought to be weighing in their deliberations. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-a-criminal-jury-would-you-want-to-know-if-theres-a-mandatory-prison-sentence/566423/66 "2011-01-10T20:52:14Z")
Being truthful is not the same as relating the entirety of your life experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-a-criminal-jury-would-you-want-to-know-if-theres-a-mandatory-prison-sentence/566423/67 "2011-01-10T21:01:52Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Being truthful is not the same as relating the entirety of your life experiences. This is a roundabout answer that I’m not sure I understand. If a judge asks you to be forthcoming about your life experience or political views that could impact your ability to follow the law and the judge’s instructions, you see no problem with omitting certain facts? Does a juror’s oath to tell the truth, and the _whole truth_, during voir dire play into your thinking? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-a-criminal-jury-would-you-want-to-know-if-theres-a-mandatory-prison-sentence/566423/68 "2011-01-10T21:57:03Z")
You said, "So, if the judge asks John if he has been a victim of a crime, a truthful answer is not just “No, I have never been a victim of a crime,” but also “But my sister was assaulted last year and I’m really angry at violent criminals because of that.” Which is, oddly, not true. If I have never been a victim of a violent crime but my sister has, then if a judge asks if i have been a victim of a violent crime a correct, true, and accurate answer would be “no”. The question asked was of a Yes/No variety. Elaborating in that instance would also be factual, but simply answering no would not be dishonest or unethical. > [@](#): > > If a judge asks you to be forthcoming about your life experience or political views that could impact your ability to follow the law and the judge’s instructions, you see no problem with omitting certain facts? I would communicate what I honestly believed is relevant. If they want more info, they can ask. I see no problem with this. If in the prior example I did not believe the history of my sister is relevant, then I would not disclose it. > [@](#): > > Does a juror’s oath to tell the truth, and the whole truth, during voir dire play into your thinking? As far as I’m concerned, I am telling the whole truth. If they ask if I own any guns, and I do, being honest would be to answer “yes”. It is not dishonest if I do not disclose the quantity and model of each. I’m pretty sure there is no way that at trial a judge or lawyers could keep hidden mandatory sentences from a jury who wanted to know unless there is some serious sequestering going on. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-a-criminal-jury-would-you-want-to-know-if-theres-a-mandatory-prison-sentence/566423/69 "2011-01-10T22:45:39Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’m pretty sure there is no way that at trial a judge or lawyers could keep hidden mandatory sentences from a jury who wanted to know unless there is some serious sequestering going on. As a juror, you are instructed not to do things like investigate the crime on your own time, or perform independent legal analysis. It is grounds for dismissal and a mistrial. [http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/davie-police-officer-convicted-of-rape-to-get-1126441.html](http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/davie-police-officer-convicted-of-rape-to-get-1126441.html) > **[As Jurors Turn to Web, Mistrials Are Popping Up (Published 2009)](https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/18/us/18juries.html)** > > The use of BlackBerrys, iPhones, Google and Twitter by jurors is wreaking havoc on trials around the country. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-a-criminal-jury-would-you-want-to-know-if-theres-a-mandatory-prison-sentence/566423/70 "2011-01-10T23:08:05Z")
I’m not arguing that point. Are you disputing mine? > [@](#): > > …the courts cannot search the minds of the jurors to find the basis upon which they judge. If the jury feels that the law under which the defendant is accused is unjust, or that exigent circumstances justified the actions of the accused, or for any reason which appeals to their logic or passion, the jury has the power to acquit, and the courts must abide by that decision. Just as when nullification happens you will never know the mind of the juror, you will also never know the juror who either already knows sentencing rules, or who finds out on their own. I personally read penal code frequently as a matter of personal interest. Sentencing rules are a matter of public record. I don’t believe that knowledge of sentencing itself is prejudicial, just as knowing ahead of time that murder is criminal in a murder trial. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-a-criminal-jury-would-you-want-to-know-if-theres-a-mandatory-prison-sentence/566423.md?page=3)