# You're on the Jedi Council. Make 'em less stupid. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 28, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793 "2010-08-28T15:17:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/21 "2010-08-28T16:36:20Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Not using said credibility to oppose obviously stupid policies is even stupider than the stupid policies. If I’m a Jedi then presumably I believe Jedi teachings. From the point of view of someone who believes the Jedi teachings I don’t think the policies would be stupid at all. > [@Tengu](#): > > So, your plan is to make every mistake the Jedi made, but even worse? The Jedi’s mistake was giving way and not adamantly following their own code. Had they not allowed Anakin to undergo training- had they followed their instincts instead of adhering to the wishes of a dead master they might have prevented Pappy’s takeover and their subsequent annihilation. Had they more determinedly weeded out sexual relationships they might have prevented Pappy’s seduction of Anakin. > [@Tengu](#): > > Positive emotions - love (all kinds) included - should be encouraged, and positive ways of dealing with (NOT suppressing) negative emotions, such as fear and anger, should be taught. The Dark Side of the Force isn’t all about kicking puppies and giving in to your hatred. If you’re using love and happiness to enhance your Force powers you’re in danger of falling to the Dark Side. The Dark Side is all about using emotion to fuel your powers- it just so happens that emotions like fear and anger are more easily conjured than love. It shouldn’t be surprising that someone who’s after a way to enhance their powers would be willing to focus on emotions like anger. > [@Tengu](#): > > And, no, ‘suppressing emotion’ isn’t the same to the Jedi as ‘God’ is to Christians. It’s the same as clerical chastity and celibacy in the Catholic church - the Force itself is the God analogue. I didn’t say that the Jedi’s belief in suppressing emotion was directly analogous to a Catholic’s belief in God. But suppressing emotion is a core part of the Jedi ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/22 "2010-08-28T16:48:08Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > Not using said credibility to oppose obviously stupid policies is even stupider than the stupid policies. > > If I’m a Jedi then presumably I believe Jedi teachings. From the point of view of someone who believes the Jedi teachings I don’t think the policies would be stupid at all. Except you’re not approaching it from the POV of someone who’s lived in the Star Wars Universe all his life and was raised by the Jedi. You’re approaching it from the POV of someone who came into the Jedi at your current age and who knows how Jedi policies are going to bite them in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/23 "2010-08-28T16:54:12Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Except you’re not approaching it from the POV of someone who’s lived in the Star Wars Universe all his life and was raised by the Jedi. You’re approaching it from the POV of someone who came into the Jedi at your current age and who knows how Jedi policies are going to bite them in the ass. Well, it comes down to whether you think the Jedi were right. When I say that I think the Jedi are right I only do so because it’s canon. In this hypothetical does the Force operate as the Jedi say it does or does it turn out that they were wrong? The Jedi say that giving into emotions, even positive ones, can lead to the Dark Side. Is that true or isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Sweetums](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Sweetums](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweetums)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/24 "2010-08-28T16:58:02Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > There isn’t much you could do to fix the Jedi Order, as far as I’m concerned. Their greatest weakness is arrogance and I don’t know how I could institutionalize a correction for that problem. > > Just a few notes: > > I keep marriage banned. In fact, I attempt to create procedures that will make it more difficult for Jedi to harbor secret relationships. Cerean Jedi will continue to be allowed to marry but I’d consider preventing Cerean Jedi with such attachments from serving on the council. > > I’ll attempt to further separate the Jedi Order from the Galactic Republic. The Jedi should be acting based on the will of the Force, not the whims of politicians. > > Lightsaber training would cease being mandatory. I think that the lightsaber’s central role in Jedi training is contradictory. Obi-Wan barely trained Luke in the use of the lightsaber and it seems to me that even the few lightsaber lessons he did provide were more about Luke learning to see without the use of his eyes than anything else. Yoda never once mentions lightsabers or lightsaber combat to Luke. Jedi should not universally be combatants. > > I may think of more later. ``` You're a Sith aren't you? ``` 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/25 "2010-08-28T17:04:17Z")
Wow, I was all ready for this thread to be idiotic, but I was pleasantly surprised. There are some well-thought-out replies here. Nice going. Y’all have given me something to think about. I have always thought that suppression of emotions is an unnatural thing for humans. Controlling emotions, however, is a good idea even if you aren’t a Jedi. If we can imagine a sect of clerics who control their emotions and yet are parents and spouses, then why can’t we apply this to the Jedi? ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/26 "2010-08-28T17:05:24Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/27 "2010-08-28T17:09:01Z")
> [@Sweetums](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > There isn’t much you could do to fix the Jedi Order, as far as I’m concerned. Their greatest weakness is arrogance and I don’t know how I could institutionalize a correction for that problem. > > > > Just a few notes: > > > > I keep marriage banned. In fact, I attempt to create procedures that will make it more difficult for Jedi to harbor secret relationships. Cerean Jedi will continue to be allowed to marry but I’d consider preventing Cerean Jedi with such attachments from serving on the council. > > > > I’ll attempt to further separate the Jedi Order from the Galactic Republic. The Jedi should be acting based on the will of the Force, not the whims of politicians. > > > > Lightsaber training would cease being mandatory. I think that the lightsaber’s central role in Jedi training is contradictory. Obi-Wan barely trained Luke in the use of the lightsaber and it seems to me that even the few lightsaber lessons he did provide were more about Luke learning to see without the use of his eyes than anything else. Yoda never once mentions lightsabers or lightsaber combat to Luke. Jedi should not universally be combatants. > > > > I may think of more later. > > ``` > You're a Sith aren't you? > > ``` > > 😉 I know you’re joking, but if I were Sith I’d give into my emotions, not suppress them, I’d integrate myself with the Republic, not separate myself from it and violence would probably be my primary tool. > [@PSXer](#): > > Yoda doesn’t need a lightsaber to teach Luke how to use his “What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge blaster fire?” “No, Luke, I’m trying to tell you that when you’re ready, have to you won’t.” ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/28 "2010-08-28T17:18:24Z")
The argument over mandated celibacy is interesting, but I can’t help but wonder where all the little Jedi are supposed to come from. (Assuming that the special mitochondria, or whatever, have at least a sttrong causal connection back to heredity.) Answering with a wisecrack is not only always possible, but something I encourage. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/29 "2010-08-28T17:21:59Z")
> [@Trans Fat Og](#): > > The argument over mandated celibacy is interesting, but I can’t help but wonder where all the little Jedi are supposed to come from. (Assuming that the special mitochondria, or whatever, have at least a sttrong causal connection back to heredity.) Force-sensitivity is certainly hereditary. Vader knew that Leia would be as strong with the Force as her brother. But even if no Jedi ever reproduced new Force-sensitives could still be harvested from among the normal population- indeed, that’s how most Jedi join the order. It’s better to think of it this way: ALL living creatures are Force-sensitive. The people we actually label as Force-sensitive, however, are just a bit more sensitive than others. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/30 "2010-08-28T17:23:22Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I know you’re joking, but if I were Sith I’d give into my emotions, not suppress them, I’d integrate myself with the Republic, not separate myself from it and violence would probably be my primary tool. So if you were an influential Jedi, you’d entrench the Jedi Council’s flaws, just 'cuz, but if you were a Sith, you’d work to drastically change their behavior? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/31 "2010-08-28T17:24:49Z")
I agree with **Clockworkmelon**. In the Star Wars universe, Jedi with strong personal attachments to family end up going over to the Dark Side. The Jedi council’s mistake in the prequels wasn’t the rules, but that it bent the rules to allow Anakin into the Order. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/32 "2010-08-28T17:24:54Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > I know you’re joking, but if I were Sith I’d give into my emotions, not suppress them, I’d integrate myself with the Republic, not separate myself from it and violence would probably be my primary tool. > > So if you were an influential Jedi, you’d entrench the Jedi Council’s flaws, just 'cuz, but if you were a Sith, you’d work to drastically change their behavior? Yet again, if the Jedi are correct about the way the Force works then their policies are not flawed. And my provided behavior would be what I’d do as a Sith, not what I’d try to make the Jedi do. Though actually, now that you mention it, that would be a nifty way to bring down the Jedi. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/33 "2010-08-28T17:25:46Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > Wow, I was all ready for this thread to be idiotic, but I was pleasantly surprised. Oh, but I had an idiotic response all ready to go! Beyond allowing marriage, I would craft a Jedi Kama Sutra, sexually corrupt the order, and become Darth Tercourse! Force sex is not forced sex. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/34 "2010-08-28T17:40:13Z")
> [@Trans Fat Og](#): > > Answering with a wisecrack is not only always possible. That is a sick lie, and you should be ashamed of yourself for uttering it. Wisecracks are not always APPROPRIATE, but they are ALWAYS possible. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/35 "2010-08-28T17:44:42Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > And my provided behavior would be what I’d do as a Sith, not what I’d try to make the Jedi do. I know. I’m saying that a Sith integrating himself into the Republic is completely ass-backwards. The Sith Empire’s stated motivation for war in the Old Republic era is that the Republic has become weak and decayed and hence all but completely incapable of dealing with external threats like the Mandalorians. The Republic needs to be destroyed and replaced with a strong Empire that can endure no matter what threats it is faced with. Integrating with the Republic would just result in being dragged down by all the dead weight. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/36 "2010-08-28T17:47:20Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > know. I’m saying that a Sith integrating himself into the Republic is completely ass-backwards. Yeah, only a completely retarded Sith Lord would attempt to integrate himself into the Republic. What a dumb idea! Forget I mentioned it. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/37 "2010-08-28T18:01:36Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > > > know. I’m saying that a Sith integrating himself into the Republic is completely ass-backwards. > > Yeah, only a completely retarded Sith Lord would attempt to integrate himself into the Republic. What a dumb idea! Forget I mentioned it. The Sith Lords _are_ completely retarded. Palpatine was an utter failure, in the grand scheme of things. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/38 "2010-08-28T18:07:47Z")
1)Shoot Yoda 1. Allow marriage 3)See if there is anyway that I can increase training output, it took 20 years to train Jedi, thats Japanese Navy standard and a receipe for disaster. 4)Shoot Yoda 1. Take Jedi from the boys and girls of about 12 years of age, thats enoigh tike to train a Jedi 2. Seperate the training establishment from Operations, instead of Master-Padawans, you could have a pupilage period for graduated Knights, they serve in operations under seniors as they are slowly exposed to it and given more responsibility earlier, especially with straightforward matters. 3. Seriously just shoot Yoda. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/39 "2010-08-28T18:13:01Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > Yeah, only a completely retarded Sith Lord would attempt to integrate himself into the Republic. What a dumb idea! Forget I mentioned it. > > The Sith Lords _are_ completely retarded. Palpatine was an utter failure, in the grand scheme of things. I agree. But frankly, _everyone_ in the Star Wars universe is completely retarded. I mean, Pappy was retarded and yet he destroyed a massive organization of premonition-having, lightsaber-wielding, ass-kicking psychic monks. The characters are limited by their creator. That being said, if I had to choose one of the less retarded characters I might have to go with Pappy. At least he accomplished something. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793/40 "2010-08-28T18:20:08Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I agree. But frankly, _everyone_ in the Star Wars universe is completely retarded. I’m just going to agree with you on this point and call it a day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-on-the-jedi-council-make-em-less-stupid/551793.md?page=3)