# You're right, Danny C...there is no god. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983 "2011-01-25T23:35:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/201 "2011-01-28T14:31:24Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Seriously? Maybe I’m missing something, but the majesty of the observable universe, and the fundamental forces which define spacetime itself, seem far more impressive to me than the equivalent of Al Bundy sweating Elvis. :rolleyes: > All I see is an op-ed piece about the church’s medieval stance on abortion, which doesn’t mention Teresa at all. If that’s all you got, well… There’s this from her Wikipedia entry: “She has also been criticized for her view on suffering. She felt that suffering would bring people closer to Jesus.[43] Sanal Edamaruku, President of Rationalist International , criticised the failure to give pain killers, writing that in her Homes for the Dying, one could “hear the screams of people having maggots tweezered from their open wounds without pain relief. On principle, strong painkillers are even in hard cases not given. According to Mother Teresa’s bizarre philosophy, it is ‘the most beautiful gift for a person that he can participate in the sufferings of Christ’.”[44]” It’s cited and everything, but that’s as far as I go. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/202 "2011-01-28T14:52:47Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Seriously, the epistemology you’re espousing can be used to justify a belief in ANYTHING: “How dare you claim that unicorns are imaginary! Open your mind to the possibility of unicorns! A universe without unicorns would be devoid of magic, mystery and wonder! It would be a dreary place indeed!” > > Where do you draw the line? Unicorns? Leprechauns? Poltergeists? What other things do you believe in despite a complete lack of evidence? Sweet Jesus, dude – are you _seriously_ comparing basic pantheistic faith (still practiced by millions of believers, including the Dalai Lama and Tina Turner, after 10,000+ years) with fucking unicorns??? In any other nation, a straw man that size would trigger food riots. :rolleyes: > [@RitterSport](#): > > There’s this from her Wikipedia entry: > > “…According to Mother Teresa’s bizarre philosophy, it is ‘the most beautiful gift for a person that he can participate in the sufferings of Christ’.”[44]” Point taken, but I don’t see how that’s out of line with standard JudeoChristian ethics – i.e., inflicting the Sufferings of Job upon another human being for the purpose of your own spiritual salvation. (That kind of twisted logic is not unique to religion, btw. But I digress…) ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/203 "2011-01-28T15:48:01Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Sweet Jesus, dude – are you _seriously_ comparing basic pantheistic faith (still practiced by millions of believers, including the Dalai Lama and Tina Turner, after 10,000+ years) with fucking unicorns??? In any other nation, a straw man that size would trigger food riots. :rolleyes: That is not an answer… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/204 "2011-01-28T15:53:10Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Sweet Jesus, dude – are you _seriously_ comparing basic pantheistic faith (still practiced by millions of believers, including the Dalai Lama and Tina Turner, after 10,000+ years) with fucking unicorns??? In any other nation, a straw man that size would trigger food riots. :rolleyes: Buddhism is not pantheistic, is not a faith and is not 10,000 years old. Having said that, all supernatural beliefs are equal. There is no difference between believing in gods and believing in unicorns. Actually, unicorns are slightly more plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/205 "2011-01-28T15:57:07Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > That is not an answer… It’s not his first non-answer, either. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/206 "2011-01-28T16:02:38Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Let’s start with something simple. Since it’s probably one of, if not the best known occurrence, even talked about by one blowhard (Dawkins), what do you think of the Miracle of Our Lady Fatima? Fraud? Ignorance? Lies? Mass hysteria? I’m not familiar with the details of the Fatima claims. Can you give me a quick summary of what you think happened on this occasion? Is the wikipedia page (I assume there is one) more-or-less accurate? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/207 "2011-01-28T16:09:14Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Let’s start with something simple. Since it’s probably one of, if not the best known occurrence, even talked about by one blowhard (Dawkins), what do you think of the Miracle of Our Lady Fatima? Fraud? Ignorance? Lies? Mass hysteria? All of the above, pretty much. Here’s one thing we know for sure - the sun didn’t fucking move. Basically, you had a mob of credulous, superstitious, ignorant peasants staring at the sun until somebody imagined that they saw saw something, then the power of suggestion did the rest. Everybody else started imagining they saw it too. Some were probably also lying, but suggestion is a powerful thing, and people are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/208 "2011-01-28T16:12:15Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > The whole Truth is not objective, only partial truth, or they way different people see it. LIke the blind men feeling different parts of the elephant, or a tree at different seasons. The full truth is what is, so just looking at a tree in a different season is not the same as seeing the tree in all seasons. The same with a blind man seeing an elephant by feel, A person with sight could see that the blind men only felt part of the elephant and made their decision and only felt part of the truth! You’re confusing truth with perception. The “truth” is that the elephant is objectively an elephant. That does not change just because individual perceptions of the elephant may be incomplete. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/209 "2011-01-28T16:22:16Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > That doesn’t make any sense. The only way to prove that spirits, gods and souls contradict the physical laws we know would be to observe said spirits, gods and souls contradicting said physical laws. This is one of the most asinine things I’ve ever seen written here. You don’t have any education at all in scientific method or critical thinking, do you. No, dude, it doesn’t work that way. It works like this. We already know what the laws of physics are. If you hypothesize something that would contradict tjhose laws then we already know you you are hypothesizing something that would contrradict thos laws. It isn’t necessary to see it contradicting those laws to know it woul;d contradict those laws (and I can’t get my head around how you woulkd even think that makes sense at all). > [@](#): > > However, if we were to observe said spirits, gods and souls contradicting said laws, then we’d have to amend our understanding of said laws as they wouldn’t be indicative of the physical world, of which spirits, gods and souls would exist. So I feel compelled to ask, have you ever observed a spirit, god or soul? And how do you know how spirits, gods or souls work, anyhow? You have to actually define those things. You’re the one who made them up. They’re nonsense words until you define them scientifically, and it’s beyond asinine to say that it’s necessary to observe something happening in order to say it can’t happen. > [@](#): > > I’m amused by the false sense of intellectual superiority. Asking you reasonable questions shows a “false sense of intellectual superiority?” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/210 "2011-01-28T16:39:55Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Sweet Jesus, dude – are you _seriously_ comparing basic pantheistic faith (still practiced by millions of believers, including the Dalai Lama and Tina Turner, after 10,000+ years) with fucking unicorns??? Absolutely. How is believing in unicorns without evidence different from believing in God without evidence? Your position seems to be that if atheists can’t _absolutely prove_ that God doesn’t exist they should withhold judgment on the matter. But there are a great many things whose non-existence we can’t absolutely prove. So if you’re going to be consistent, you should withhold judgment on them as well. I don’t believe in either God or unicorns because there’s no evidence for either. If at some point in the future some evidence for either appears, I’ll reconsider my belief. But until then I’ll continue to disbelieve in both of them. My question to you is: How do you reconcile your belief in God with your disbelief in unicorns? Why do you apply different epistemological standards to these two hypothetical entities? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/211 "2011-01-28T16:49:54Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Sweet Jesus, dude – are you _seriously_ comparing basic pantheistic faith (still practiced by millions of believers, including the Dalai Lama and Tina Turner, after 10,000+ years) with fucking unicorns??? In any other nation, a straw man that size would trigger food riots. :rolleyes: You are advocating an appeal to popularity. This means you are saying that if millions thought that 2 + 2 equals 5 it would be silly to question it. What evidence are you suggesting that atheists are denying? Will you at least withdraw that claim? A good debater would admit that they were wrong and withdraw an assertion they weren’t able to support. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/212 "2011-01-28T17:11:03Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Absolutely. How is believing in unicorns without evidence different from believing in God without evidence? For the record, I think very few individuals ever believed in unicorns, even during the Dark Ages – most _rational_ people can differentiate between reality and cultural mythology. As for the Revealing Science of God – well, that’s something you either choose to accept on faith, or ignore at your own peril. (Not that it makes much of a practical difference, at least in the Buddhist faith. Very few souls ever visit [Naraka](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka), and even that hellish region burns for a mere 3.39738624×10[sup]18[/sup] years…compared to eternity, that’s an eyeblink!) > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s not his first non-answer, either. A non-response is indeed an answer…and if you must know _why_, it’s because I’ve run out of anti-migrane meds and I can’t see my doc until Monday. (Meanwhile, my ex-Doper friend is LHAO and texting me: _“Told you so! I told you so!”_ – yeah, what a jerk.) :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/213 "2011-01-28T17:15:14Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > For the record, I think very few individuals ever believed in unicorns, even during the Dark Ages – most _rational_ people can differentiate between reality and cultural mythology. As for the Revealing Science of God – well, that’s something you either choose to accept on faith, or ignore at your own peril. (Not that it makes much of a practical difference, at least in the Buddhist faith. Very few souls ever visit [Naraka](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka), and even that hellish region burns for a mere 3.39738624×10[sup]18[/sup] years…compared to eternity, that’s an eyeblink!) > A non-response is indeed an answer…and if you must know _why_, it’s because I’ve run out of anti-migrane meds and I can’t see my doc until Monday. (Meanwhile, my ex-Doper friend is LHAO and texting me: _“Told you so! I told you so!”_ – yeah, what a jerk.) :smack: Any chance you could address the post above yours? Are we to respect your opinion when you are unwilling to defend your arguments and simply run away when challenged? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/214 "2011-01-28T17:17:06Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > As for **the Revealing Science of God** – well, that’s something you either choose to accept on faith, or ignore at your own peril. (bolding mine)I _knew_ I had heard that term before on public access television. Welcome to [The Revealing Science of God.](http://www.yhwh.com/Science/science0.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/215 "2011-01-28T17:26:13Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > H[sub]0[/sub], H[sub]0[/sub], H[sub]0[/sub]… > It’s my faith that the universe could not exist without higher intelligence, or vice versa. (Though I suppose the latter part must be true by definition…) > > But let’s back up a bit. I know, there’s a lot of cosmologists & quantum physicists here who’ve devoted their lives to studying the limits of the known multiverse, and who are possibly annoyed at some Heisenbergian Fanboy claiming that this knowledge suggests some spectacular, yet elusive, divine truth about everything. That said, masters of scientific method run the risk of not seeing the forest for the trees – kinda like the adage about how explaining _why_ a joke is funny makes the joke cease to be funny. > > Having said that, I’ll concede that anyone’s viewpoint regarding “higher intelligence” is entirely relative. Some people’s minds _require_ a sense of magic, mystery & wonder about the universe, merely to balance out the boring, pointless routines of everyday modern life; while others (especially present company!) have no such need for God, Karma, or belief in some extraordinary power we can never comprehend, and that’s equally fine. > > Where I draw the line, however, is when people _insist_ that their particular viewpoint is absolute truth, and demand a ridiculous burden of proof when their faith in Absolutely Nothing is confronted by Maybe Something. After all – the knowledge you discover (be it the way flowers germinate, or how to dismantle an atomic bomb) is meaningless by itself – it’s what you _do_ with that knowledge that matters, that’s all. The null hypothesis of no god, no higher intelligence, is not considered absolute truth - just the default until someone shows otherwise, which you haven’t even come close to doing. The reason that there is no higher intelligence in the work of the theorists is that, as Laplace said to Napoleon, they have no need of that hypothesis. I have no trouble with the concept that there is no meaning or purpose to the universe, except the meaning and purpose that we as intelligent entities see in it. If you think that something has assigned a meaning, you need to show some evidence that this something exists. Without that, you are like someone who says their life’s purpose is defending their city from Lord Voldemort. Scientists, by the way, often have provisional faith in the outcome of an experiment before it is conducted. Good scientists abandon this faith as soon as the facts show it is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/216 "2011-01-28T17:34:06Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > For the record, I think very few individuals ever believed in unicorns, even during the Dark Ages – most _rational_ people can differentiate between reality and cultural mythology. For thousands of years, the majority of the human race believed that the sun and the moon were gods. The _ad populum_ argument is a fallacy, and all supernatural beliefs are equally irrational. > [@](#): > > As for the Revealing Science of God – well, that’s something you either choose to accept on faith, or ignore at your own peril. Pascal’s Wager. Snerk. When all you can do is threaten us with your powerful sky sorceror you’re basically admitting that you’ve got absolutely nothing in terms of evidence. 'revealing science of God." Heh. What does that even mean? It doesn’t even make semantic sense. Science is a method of discovering information by empirical testing. How does that word have any application to believing in fantastic claims without evidence? > [@](#): > > (Not that it makes much of a practical difference, at least in the Buddhist faith. Very few souls ever visit [Naraka](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka), and even that hellish region burns for a mere 3.39738624×10[sup]18[/sup] years…compared to eternity, that’s an eyeblink! There are no necessary beliefs in Buddhism. It isn’t a “faith.” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/217 "2011-01-28T17:34:14Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Sweet Jesus, dude – are you _seriously_ comparing basic pantheistic faith (still practiced by millions of believers, including the Dalai Lama and Tina Turner, after 10,000+ years) with fucking unicorns??? In any other nation, a straw man that size would trigger food riots. :rolleyes: The Dalai Lama said that if science and Buddhism are at odds, Buddhism would have to change. I don’t know Tina Turner’s opinion on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/218 "2011-01-28T17:38:50Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The Dalai Lama said that if science and Buddhism are at odds, Buddhism would have to change. > I don’t know Tina Turner’s opinion on this issue. Yeah, what’s\* she \*got to do with it? ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/219 "2011-01-28T17:48:09Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > For the record, I think very few individuals ever believed in unicorns, even during the Dark Ages […] What _possible_ difference does the _number_ of people believing in an idea, make? A billion mistaken people are… [_drum roll_] …_mistaken_. (I’m pretty sure you’re making an Appeal to Popularity here, as **Lobohan** has already suggested. And I fervently hope that they taught you in English Major School that this is a fallacy.) > [@](#): > > – most _rational_ people can differentiate between reality and cultural mythology. How so? How is belief in God “rational” and belief in unicorns, not? How can you be so sure that the idea of God is not also just “cultural mythology”, that just happens to be more…_popular_? Be _ **specific** _. > [@](#): > > As for the Revealing Science of God – well, that’s something you either choose to accept on faith, or ignore at your own peril. (Not that it makes much of a practical difference, at least in the Buddhist faith. Very few souls ever visit [Naraka](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka), and even that hellish region burns for a mere 3.39738624×10[sup]18[/sup] years…compared to eternity, that’s an eyeblink!) Ah. I was wondering when the [Argumentum ad Baculum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_baculum), in this case hell/Naraka, would make its appearance. “Ignore God at your own peril,” indeed. I grew up hearing this Scheiße at every single sermon in my hillbilly-Tennessee Southern Baptist congregation. I would have expected more from pretty much anyone on SDMB. You just totally lost the small remaining shred of respect I had for your position, **fuzzypickles**. Have fun continuing to back-pedal, goalpost-shift, redefine terms, and avoid direct challenges. I’m done with this particular exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/220 "2011-01-28T18:30:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yeah, what’s\* she \*got to do with it? Win. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983.md?page=12)