# You're right, Danny C...there is no god. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983 "2011-01-25T23:35:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/281 "2011-01-30T02:39:42Z")
> [@Imagineer](#): > > These things don’t actually happen? > > Which 10 of the below addresses will respond to your email with “God is Love” in the subject box if you send your list of 10 to this email address [the\_rolling\_stones@rock.com](mailto:the_rolling_stones@rock.com) > It doesn’t prove there is a God, but rather shows you why it’s difficult to prove to me that there is not. > > [incoherent list of emails snipped out] > > and … 100 more. So it’s difficult to prove to you that there isn’t a God because you don’t understand how to reason and what evidence is? ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/282 "2011-01-30T02:57:51Z")
> [@Imagineer](#): > > These things don’t actually happen? > Which 10 of the below addresses will respond to your email with “God is Love” in the subject box if you send your list of 10 to this email address [the\_rolling\_stones@rock.com](mailto:the_rolling_stones@rock.com) > It doesn’t prove there is a God, but rather shows you why it’s difficult to prove to me that there is not. > > [a buncha e-mail addresses] > > and … 100 more. What? 😕 Maybe I haven’t been paying enough attention, but what do e-mail chain letters have to do with _anything_? ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/283 "2011-01-30T04:34:29Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > If God is constrained in any way he is not omnipotent. I believe the official party line for Xtians is that God “limits his power”, to preserve human free will and allow us to make our own decisions. I refuse to acknowledge ANY higher power who demands total obsequience, based on nothing more than a Holy Book written several thousand years ago by delusional desert dwellers. _Especially_ if this bipolar God delivers extreme vengeance in an arbitrary manner (e.g. the Haitian Earthquake, the Sudanese genocide, the victims of predators such as Bernie Madoff & [ex-priest Oliver O’Grady](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deliver_Us_from_Evil_%282006_film%29), etc.) Read the Book of Job – _that_ is how the mind of God operates. His believers are meaningless objects, to be toyed with and discarded according to God’s wicked whims. That said, despite being ex-Born Again, I’ve never _officially_ ruled out the existence of God. Instead, I went over God’s head to the omniscient power which rules God – aka, the Multiverse. (Or at least the fundamentals which control the Multiverse.) And the Universe doesn’t care who we are or what we do – it’s _our_ job to join with the Universe’s plan, not _assume_ that God wants us to do what we don’t feel like doing. > [@Lobohan](#): > > So it’s difficult to prove to you that there isn’t a God because you don’t understand how to reason and what evidence is? God (aka the Supreme Being) can never be “proven”, because the definition of “God” is entirely arbitrary. As for evidence of God’s Existence…well, I’d rather not trigger any more migrane attacks, T.Y.V.M. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/284 "2011-01-30T05:05:32Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > As for evidence of God’s Existence…well, I’d rather not trigger any more migrane attacks, T.Y.V.M. :rolleyes: Sure. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![George\_Kaplin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@George\_Kaplin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/George_Kaplin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/285 "2011-01-30T07:28:39Z")
> [@Cyningablood](#): > > I’m STILL WAITING, too, fuzzypickles, for the “evidence” of a “higher [than human] intelligence” that you claim we atheists are ignoring. > > How. fucking. long. are you going to dodge this issue?!?! Dude, he’s had plenty of opportunity to answer. I think we’re at the point where we can safely withdraw the assertion on his behalf 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/286 "2011-01-30T15:26:23Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > God (aka the Supreme Being) can never be “proven”, because the definition of “God” is entirely arbitrary. As for evidence of God’s Existence…well, I’d rather not trigger any more migrane attacks, T.Y.V.M. :rolleyes: Does this mean that you admit that you were wrong about there being evidence for God’s existence that atheists are ignoring? I’d really like to know if you’ve retracted that. I, as an atheist, would like to know of any evidence I’ve missed. I’m fairly sure there isn’t any, but you say there is and evade and deflect when asked to substantiate it. Is it so much to ask that you stand by your assertions or retract them? Why do you keep running away? ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/287 "2011-01-30T16:19:50Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Does this mean that you admit that you were wrong about there being evidence for God’s existence that atheists are ignoring? > > I’d really like to know if you’ve retracted that. Retracted what? I keep saying again and again, YOU need to open your eyes and allow the evidence to reveal itself. That’s how Buddhism works, you silly goose: _“When the student is ready, the teacher shall appear.”_ But not until then, not before you’re prepared. If it’s a safe, cozy classroom you seek, try Christianity instead. :rolleyes: > [@Lobohan](#): > > Why do you keep running away? Who’s running away? I’m here, I’ve always been here – and unlike present company, I kinda have a life at the moment. My path is worth more of my time than yours. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/288 "2011-01-30T17:20:11Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > . . . you silly goose: Leave the insults in the BBQ Pit. (For that matter, the rest of your post is little more than an extended toes-on-the-line insult against the posters you are refusing to engage in honest debate with a sideswipe at Christianity. Given that you are the first proselytizer for Buddhism that I have ever seen engage in these particular tactics, the possibility that you are trolling has crossed my mind. I am not going to act on that without more specific evidence, but you might want to consider modifying your attitude and your responses.) [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/289 "2011-01-30T17:22:59Z")
> [@Imagineer](#): > > Which 10 of the below addresses will respond to your email with “God is Love” in the subject box if you send your list of 10 to this email address [the\_rolling\_stones@rock.com](mailto:the_rolling_stones@rock.com) I have no idea what you thought you established, (or even what you think you said), with your list, but do not do this again. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/290 "2011-01-30T17:29:22Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Retracted what? I keep saying again and again, YOU need to open your eyes and allow the evidence to reveal itself. That’s how Buddhism works No it isn’t. Buddhism makes no such claim at all. Obviously you can’t and won’t present any evidence, so we’re all wasting our time here. What you’re doing essentially amounts to “Have faith and you’ll see it.” That’s circular bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/291 "2011-01-30T17:39:48Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > I believe the official party line for Xtians is that God “limits his power”, to preserve human free will and allow us to make our own decisions. The constraints I’m talking about are logical constraints from the very definition of omnipotence and omniscience. Him choosing to allow free will is different - he can choose not to allow it, as in the Exodus story. God is also constrained to choose only one of two alternatives - again, no big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/292 "2011-01-30T17:50:44Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Retracted what? I keep saying again and again, YOU need to open your eyes and allow the evidence to reveal itself. […] Horseshit. You said we were IGNORING evidence. Which entails that the evidence is already in principle _visible_. Which is it: Is it there and we’re ignoring it? Or is it that we have to go through some bullshit 80’s-movie montage sequence of jedi-esque training and meditation (according to the **fuzzypickles** Way) before we can “see” it? That response is TOTALLY full of shit. Rhetoric like “open your eyes and allow the evidence to reveal itself” is exactly the sort of bullshit technique of reinterpreting reality that Bible preachers and cult leaders and woo-woo New Age yahoos use, the world over. This deliberately vague, mystical, quasi-inspirational/self-help language allows them to spin any situation in such a way that they can claim to have found or revealed truth, when there’s nothing of substance even there. “Jesus didn’t come back on 31 Oct 2007 like I predicted he would? Poppycock! He did, you just aren’t ready to ‘see’ the truth yet, that he did!” That’s BULLSHIT. > [@](#): > > Who’s running away? I’m here, I’ve always been here […] You’re running away from the _specific question_, not the larger discussion. And you know it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/293 "2011-01-30T17:55:09Z")
God “limiting his omipotence” is functionally no different than simply deciding not to act and gives him no moral cover. The “free will” defense fails on several levels. First of all, free will is a nonsensical concept anyway, but even granting it for the sake of argument, it still has multiple problems. God can choose to only create people who will freely choose good, for instance. The free will defense also carries an unfounded assumption that there is anything inherently valuable about free will. There isn’t. Christians will say that God wants people to live him freely, but that just makes God a needy, self-centered pussy willing to torture and murder innocents for the sake of his own ego gratification. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/294 "2011-01-30T19:48:22Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > I keep saying again and again, YOU need to open your eyes and allow the evidence to reveal itself. When the evidence revealed itself to YOU, what was it? ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/295 "2011-01-30T20:12:15Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > When the evidence revealed itself to YOU, what was it? It’s very simple – instead of praying to God, I prayed to The Universal. The Universal immediately answered, whereas God never did (or merely made things worse…) But my point is that one should never ask for evidence, esp. from a person walking a _completely_ separate path from your own. Once you ally your faith and destiny with the Fundamental **F** orces **B** eyond **I** nfinity (which is basically how **“Universal”** is defined in this particular context) then basically nothing is beyond your control – at least, to the extent of what you are _able_ to control. (For example, The Universal won’t let me defy gravity – at least, not since that one time when I was still in middle school…) Seriously, dude…asking for Evidence of “God” is the lazy man’s load – that’s why so many Christians are complete assholes, because their pie-in-the-sky faith requires NO work at all. You can break every commandment in the book, from petty theft to bombing abortion clinics, and voila! You are forgiven! What kind of fucking God would want YOU as a believer, if you did that? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/296 "2011-01-30T20:33:50Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > It’s very simple – instead of praying to God, I prayed to The Universal. The Universal immediately answered, whereas God never did (or merely made things worse…) > > But my point is that one should never ask for evidence, esp. from a person walking a _completely_ separate path from your own. Once you ally your faith and destiny with the Fundamental **F** orces **B** eyond **I** nfinity (which is basically how **“Universal”** is defined in this particular context) then basically nothing is beyond your control – at least, to the extent of what you are _able_ to control. (For example, The Universal won’t let me defy gravity – at least, not since that one time when I was still in middle school…) > > Seriously, dude…asking for Evidence of “God” is the lazy man’s load – that’s why so many Christians are complete assholes, because their pie-in-the-sky faith requires NO work at all. You can break every commandment in the book, from petty theft to bombing abortion clinics, and voila! You are forgiven! What kind of fucking God would want YOU as a believer, if you did that? Is this an admission that you were dishonest when you posted that there is evidence for the existence of God? Because what you said in the quoted post isn’t rational or in any way evidence. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/297 "2011-01-30T20:49:28Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Is this an admission that you were dishonest when you posted that there is evidence for the existence of God? Because what you said in the quoted post isn’t rational or in any way evidence. Oh dear lord… How many times must I say it? We are ALL unique individuals – therefore, the answers we seek are UNIQUE to each one of us. Therefore, any “evidence” I share with you will, by default, NOT be answers which can guide you. My advice may aid you, but you can’t discover The Path until you seek it yourself…it doesn’t work any other way, according to my own personal mythology. Sometimes it’s as easy as paying attention to the inherent rhythms, patterns, and colors of nature – _especially_ the colors, if you’re synesthetic. And **Lobohan** , you’re starting to remind me of that joke about a man born with no torso, arms or legs – only a head (named “Bob”, of course!) One bright sunny day, “Bob” jumped into the deep end of the community swimming pool, but promptly sank and drowned. The moral being: _“Bob” should have quit while he was still a head._ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/298 "2011-01-30T21:00:46Z")
Forget it, Lobo. It’s fuzzytown. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/299 "2011-01-30T21:10:03Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Oh dear lord… > > How many times must I say it? We are ALL unique individuals – therefore, the answers we seek are UNIQUE to each one of us. Therefore, any “evidence” I share with you will, by default, NOT be answers which can guide you. My advice may aid you, but you can’t discover The Path until you seek it yourself…it doesn’t work any other way, according to my own personal mythology. What is your evidence that this is true? Is this what you were saying is evidence that is being ignored? That clearly isn’t the case. Are you able to recognize evidence? Evidence isn’t what you intuit. Evidence isn’t wishful thinking. Disordered thoughts like the quoted area above aren’t what rational people consider evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/300 "2011-01-30T21:11:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Forget it, Lobo. It’s fuzzytown. Every time I think I’m out, they pull me back in. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983.md?page=16)