# You're right, Danny C...there is no god. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983 "2011-01-25T23:35:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/21 "2011-01-26T15:54:06Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > ETA > Which often causes euphoria and a compelling (and irresistible) need to _witness._ Yep. And along those lines I suppose **twickster** was right to move this thread from MPSIMS to GD. Although I didn’t realize it when I composed the OP, this thread is indeed an oblique form of witnessing for atheism. And I don’t have the slightest objection to that characterization. I am _proud_ to be emotionally driven to speak up for reason and the casting off of superstitions. Count me as a wholly “evangelical” atheist. 🙂 Seriously, **raindog** , why do you (seem to) feel that this is a liability for me? How does my strong desire to help liberate others from the yoke of mythology–to in fact _proselytize_–in any way undermine my position? I always find it rather ironic that folks who are _defensive of_ religion tend to use religious terminology as a way to impugn atheists and their motivations. Very telling, I think, about their _own_ hidden analyses of religiosity. :dubious: I recently penned a rather lengthy FaceBook note (which is actually where I do most of my “blogging” and atheistic “proselytizing”) called, _Why I respect the act of proselytizing_. If you want to read it, look me up and friend me (I go by the same screen name on FB). Credit where credit is due: Penn Jillette was the first one to convince me of the value of and justification for proselytizing. He has a [short video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdvES4_MJ5Y) in which he discusses this. Worth watching. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/22 "2011-01-26T15:56:09Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > Ha! I wondered about that. Pretty unlikely; the guy was WAAAAAAYY too arrogant to ever become a member of a religion. He’s probably the leader of his own sect now. It’s the only way to be sure a religion is practiced the RIGHT way. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/23 "2011-01-26T16:10:14Z")
ETA: I’m proud to be considered an “evangelical” atheist **only as long as** we understand the terms “evangelize” or “proselytize” to mean only: a) to strongly believe in the truth of an idea b) to believe in the value and importance of that truth, and c) to believe that other humans need and deserve to hear that truth. Actual _religiosity_, in its clinical meaning, is utterly absent here. Atheism is not–nor for me will ever be–any kind of actual _religion_. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/24 "2011-01-26T17:14:26Z")
Well, you’re certainly acting like it is. :rolleyes: How is your desire to save people from “mythology” any different from their desire to save people from “hell”? Both of you are absolutely convinced you’re right. Oh, but you actually KNOW. So it’s okay when you do it. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/25 "2011-01-26T17:38:10Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, you’re certainly acting like it is. :rolleyes: > > How is your desire to save people from “mythology” any different from their desire to save people from “hell”? Fundamentally, it’s not. Where’s the problem? My opposition is to religious _doctrines_, not the practice of religious _proselytizing_. You’re just jumping to the conclusion that my anti-theism entails the latter. It does not. > [@](#): > > Both of you are absolutely convinced you’re right. Oh, but you actually KNOW. So it’s okay when you do it. No, it’s OK when BOTH of us do it. When did I ever say otherwise? My description of my past religious evangelism is harsh only in that my holier-than-thou _attitude_ was snotty; I don’t regret for a second ever boldly sharing what I thought at the time was the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/26 "2011-01-26T17:40:12Z")
Atheism is not a belief system and trying to get people to think critically is not trying to talk them into a belief system. It’s the difference between encouraging people to think for themselves or swallow fantastic beliefs with no evidence. It’s the difference between telling them to turn their brains on or off. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/27 "2011-01-26T17:45:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Atheism is not a belief system and trying to get people to think critically is not trying to talk them into a belief system. Lack of belief is akin to belief, or at least the flipside thereof. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s the difference between encouraging people to think for themselves or swallow fantastic beliefs with no evidence. It’s the difference between telling them to turn their brains on or off. No, atheism is the _assumption_ that there’s no higher intelligence beyond human intelligence, a self-delusion enabled by _ignoring_ the evidence of higher intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/28 "2011-01-26T17:50:27Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Stupid stupid list, thanks for sharing. How so? I didn’t read all the words, but I did read the “headlines”—the ten list items—and I didn’t find anything wrong with them. Which one(s) do you disagree with? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/29 "2011-01-26T17:54:25Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Lack of belief is akin to belief, or at least the flipside thereof. No it isn’t. At all. Lack of belief is an absence, not an opposite. > [@](#): > > No, atheism is the _assumption_ that there’s no higher intelligence beyond human intelligence, a self-delusion enabled by _ignoring_ the evidence of higher intelligence. What evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/30 "2011-01-26T17:55:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Atheism is not a belief system and trying to get people to think critically is not trying to talk them into a belief system. It’s the difference between encouraging people to think for themselves or swallow fantastic beliefs with no evidence. It’s the difference between telling them to turn their brains on or off. Tomato, to-mah-to. Either way, I won’t apologize for speaking up for reason. Theists can call it “proselytizing” if they wish; I have no objection to that. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/31 "2011-01-26T17:58:24Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Lack of belief is akin to belief, or at least the flipside thereof. I tend to agree with this. I’m not troubled by its implications, because it _has no_ implications that are in any way threatening to my own atheist worldview. > [@](#): > > No, atheism is the _assumption_ that there’s no higher intelligence beyond human intelligence, a self-delusion enabled by _ignoring_ the evidence of higher intelligence. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/32 "2011-01-26T17:59:37Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Lack of belief is akin to belief, or at least the flipside thereof. > [@fuzzypickles](#): > > No, atheism is the _assumption_ that there’s no higher intelligence beyond human intelligence, a self-delusion enabled by _ignoring_ the evidence of higher intelligence. You’ve been here since 2003, and you are still going to pretend that both of these viewpoints have already been discussed extensively? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/33 "2011-01-26T17:59:50Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Lack of belief is akin to belief, or at least the flipside thereof. > No, atheism is the _assumption_ that there’s no higher intelligence beyond human intelligence, a self-delusion enabled by _ignoring_ the evidence of higher intelligence. Gah! We just had this debate here. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/34 "2011-01-26T17:59:54Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Lack of belief is akin to belief, or at least the flipside thereof. So, not having something is akin to having it? Uh-huh. > [@](#): > > No, atheism is the _assumption_ that there’s no higher intelligence beyond human intelligence, a self-delusion enabled by _ignoring_ the evidence of higher intelligence. Here we go again. An atheist doesn’t have to assume anything and please show us the evidence for God/gods. ETA: **Dio** beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/35 "2011-01-26T18:05:19Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Lack of belief is akin to belief, or at least the flipside thereof. Lack of belief is the default. Do you believe in Penis Goblins? > [@](#): > > No, atheism is the _assumption_ that there’s no higher intelligence beyond human intelligence, a self-delusion enabled by _ignoring_ the evidence of higher intelligence. This board is about reducing ignorance. So perhaps you shouldn’t spout it? Atheism is not believing in God. Which is the only sensible path to take, because there is no evidence for the existence for God. None. Zero. Unless you happen to have some? Seems unlikely, but if you’re able to post some I’ll look at it. Also, an atheist could believe in a superior alien intelligence. Are Vulcans Gods in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/36 "2011-01-26T18:20:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You’ve been here since 2003, and you are still going to pretend that both of these viewpoints have already been discussed extensively? C’mon, man. This debate’s been raging since humanity developed language & abstract thoughts, and we’re no closer to the global truth today – even though we’re no longer sitting 'round the campfire pounding our hairy chests & picking nits from our harem of wives. :rolleyes: But let’s at least agree on common terms (which **Diogenes** loves to obfuscate): (1) Atheism = Lack of belief, as defined by _hypothesis_, not observable facts. (2) Agnosticism = Refusal to commit to _any_ belief system (including atheism) irrespective of the known facts. (3) Believers = Those who have chosen a system of faith (aka religion) which may or may not involve a Supreme Being, either based on blind faith or observable evidence. (WAY too many variants to list individually…) > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What evidence? Look around, with open eyes and open mind – eventually, you’ll discover the path. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/37 "2011-01-26T18:27:29Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > (1) Atheism = Lack of belief, as defined by _hypothesis_, not observable facts. Atheism is an absence of belief in theistic entities (i.e. “Gods”). It does not involve any hypotheses, and I have no idea what “observable facts” you’re talking about. > [@](#): > > (2) Agnosticism = Refusal to commit to _any_ belief system (including atheism) irrespective of the known facts. Agnosticism is a position that we do not have sufficient data to determine whether gods do or do not exist (though the term can be expanded to any other hypotheses as well…it’s possible to say, for instance, that one might be “agnostic” regarding the existence of extraterrestrials). > [@](#): > > Look around, with open eyes and open mind – you’ll find the path. In other words, you’ve got nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/38 "2011-01-26T18:28:37Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Look around, with open eyes and open mind – eventually, you’ll discover the path. In other words, you’ve got nothing except empty platitudes. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/39 "2011-01-26T18:47:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Atheism is an absence of belief in theistic entities (i.e. “Gods”). It does not involve any hypotheses, and I have no idea what “observable facts” you’re talking about. [Observation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observation#Observations_in_philosophy): The process of filtering sensory data via the six physical senses (or scientific instrumentation) which is further analyzed through rational thought to reach an individual (albeit tentative) conclusion. ALL scientific knowledge, including how gravity works, is derived from [a collection of approximations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_law) – ergo, we can’t even measure the length of our penises with [absolute precision](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisenberg_uncertainty_principle), so the only rational conclusion for just about anything falls between “I know nothing” or “close enough for government work.” 🆒 Therefore, the atheist declarative of “no higher intelligence exists” is entirely based on _faith_, not science, and is by nature a type of religion. QED. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Agnosticism is a position that we do not have sufficient data to determine whether gods do or do not exist (though the term can be expanded to any other hypotheses as well…it’s possible to say, for instance, that one might be “agnostic” regarding the existence of extraterrestrials). Always the best position to take, absent any absolute truths. (Oh, and FTR, I don’t believe that extraterrestrials exist. At least, I’ve seen no reliable evidence that they’ve made direct contact with our species…yet.) > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > In other words, you’ve got nothing. Oh, I’ve got something all right…but that’s _my_ path, not yours. Which path have _you_ been following, **Dio?** ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/40 "2011-01-26T18:48:54Z")
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