# You're right, Danny C...there is no god. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983 "2011-01-25T23:35:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/41 "2011-01-26T18:48:59Z")
Send him a nice muffin basket and check out one of the hundreds of threads on atheism here. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/42 "2011-01-26T18:53:13Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > (Oh, and FTR, I don’t believe that extraterrestrials exist. At least, I’ve seen no reliable evidence that they’ve made direct contact with our species…yet.) …and your lack of belief is a belief system, right? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/43 "2011-01-26T19:02:11Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > [Observation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observation#Observations_in_philosophy): The process of filtering sensory data via the six physical senses (or scientific instrumentation) which is further analyzed through rational thought to reach an individual (albeit tentative) conclusion. ALL scientific knowledge, including how gravity works, is derived from [a collection of approximations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_law) – ergo, we can’t even measure the length of our penises with [absolute precision](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisenberg_uncertainty_principle), so the only rational conclusion for just about anything falls between “I know nothing” or “close enough for government work.” 🆒 > > Therefore, the atheist declarative of “no higher intelligence exists” is entirely based on _faith_, not science, and is by nature a type of religion. QED. I know what observable facts, what I’m saying is that I have no idea what observable evidence there is for gods. You misunderstand the uncertainty principle, by the way. It doesn’t mean that anything is possible. > [@](#): > > Oh, I’ve got something all right…but that’s _my_ path, not yours. Which path have _you_ been following, **Dio?** You said that atheists “ignore the evidence.” What evidence? You’ve got nothing, son. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/44 "2011-01-26T19:14:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I know what observable facts, what I’m saying is that I have no idea what observable evidence there is for gods. You keep saying “gods” – that’s an anthropomorphic term, which isn’t even defined in this debate’s context. I’m talking about _higher intelligence_ – be it the Central Intelligence Agency (heh) or Jung’s theory of the Universal Mind. Naturally, my own definition isn’t precise (how can it be?) but at least it’s more logical, and therefore potentially falsifiable, than yours. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You misunderstand the uncertainty principle, by the way. It doesn’t mean that anything is possible. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You said that atheists “ignore the evidence.” What evidence? If you’re ignoring the evidence, how can I make you see it? We are the keepers of our own souls – our individual paths may be disparate, but the ultimate end (physical death) exists for us all. OTOH, “death” is not necessarily the end of the path, which is basically why RELIGION exists in the first place. It’s a necessary failsafe for the human mind; if we knew for certain what lies beyond our final physical breath, religion would not exist – it would become knowledge based on science, not blind faith. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/45 "2011-01-26T19:24:55Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > No, atheism is the _assumption_ that there’s no higher intelligence beyond human intelligence, a self-delusion enabled by _ignoring_ the evidence of higher intelligence. You could at least try to avoid idiocies like “higher intelligence” when discussing a subject like this. Atheism is a misnomer because it tries to define something based on a negative statement on something else, which is never a good way for a thorough definition of ideas. Atheism is a refusal to accept as true statements that claim the existence of the supernatural. The term belief can be applied to religion to show that people will accept statements about the supernatural without requiring logical and reasonable proof or support for it. It cannot be applied to atheism because a choice to refuse unsupported claims is a matter of intellectual principle, not a baseless self-centered unintelligent preference, like belief is. Atheism can also mean the certainty that no supernatural beings exist, which is certainly and irrefutably the case. This is not a matter of belief, but a logical conclusion based on the knowledge human beings are able to comprehend and it is a universal truth, independent of humans and their existence. The mental trap the religious seem unable to avoid falling in, is when someone says in everyday language that “I don’t believe in your volcano god”, they don’t mean that they acknowledge that the volcano god exists but they choose not to believe in it, which could be perceived as just another form of a belief. They are saying that the volcano god does not exist in the first place, so not believing in something non existent is not a matter of preference, it’s a matter of having the capability to apply intelligent deduction. Something the religious lack or choose not to apply for themselves, by definition. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/46 "2011-01-26T19:42:02Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > You keep saying “gods” – that’s an anthropomorphic term, which isn’t even defined in this debate’s context. I’m talking about _higher intelligence_ – be it the Central Intelligence Agency (heh) or Jung’s theory of the Universal Mind. Naturally, my own definition isn’t precise (how can it be?) but at least it’s more logical, and therefore potentially falsifiable, than yours. “Higher intelligence?” What does that mean? Cite that there is any evdience for it? > [@](#): > > If you’re ignoring the evidence, how can I make you see it? By telling me exactly what it is that I’m ignoring. > [@](#): > > We are the keepers of our own souls – our individual paths may be disparate, but the ultimate end (physical death) exists for us all. OTOH, “death” is not necessarily the end of the path, which is basically why RELIGION exists in the first place. It’s a necessary failsafe for the human mind; if we knew for certain what lies beyond our final physical breath, religion would not exist – it would become knowledge based on science, not blind faith. This is content free prattle. can you show evidence for your “higher intelligence” or can’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/47 "2011-01-26T20:45:51Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Therefore, the atheist declarative of “no higher intelligence exists” is entirely based on _faith_, not science, and is by nature a type of religion. QED. Bullshit. And strawman to boot: That’s not what most atheists say. Most atheists say, “I don’t _believe_ there is a god,” not “There _is_ no god.” And no, it’s not a type of “religion”. Here, this should help you: [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion) ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/48 "2011-01-26T20:48:25Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > If you’re ignoring the evidence, how can I make you see it? Dude. You haven’t presented any. _ANY_. Don’t be coy. Put up or shut up. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/49 "2011-01-26T21:04:06Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > Most atheists say, **“I don’t _believe_ there is a god,”** not “There _is_ no god.” [bolding mine] There’s that B-word again. And thank you for proving my point…_finally._ > [@Cyningablod](#): > > Don’t be coy. Put up or shut up. What-EVER… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/50 "2011-01-26T21:08:01Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > There’s that B-word again. And thank you for proving my point…_finally._ > What-EVER… :rolleyes: What “point” of yours did prove? That atheism is a _religion_? Not fucking remotely. Try again. Here’s a clue, man: “Belief” =/= “Religion”. Check that dictionary link I gave you, above. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/51 "2011-01-26T21:10:37Z")
> [@](#): > > What-EVER… :rolleyes: No, seriously. Put up or shut up. You’ve come into this thread blustering about the “evidence” for a “higher intelligence”. When called on it, and asked to provide such evidence, you resort to fortune cookie-isms and suggesting that we’re deliberately ignoring it. (When you didn’t even provide any in the first place.) So on behalf of all present atheists, I’ll ask you again: Show us the “evidence” for a “higher intelligence”. Or shut up. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/52 "2011-01-26T21:44:01Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > If you’re ignoring the evidence, how can I make you see it? > > We are the keepers of our own souls – our individual paths may be disparate, but the ultimate end (physical death) exists for us all. OTOH, “death” is not necessarily the end of the path, which is basically why RELIGION exists in the first place. It’s a necessary failsafe for the human mind; if we knew for certain what lies beyond our final physical breath, religion would not exist – it would become knowledge based on science, not blind faith. So, there’s evidence _and_ religion requires blind faith? Explain. > [@Cyningablod](#): > > That’s not what most atheists say. Most atheists say, “I don’t _believe_ there is a god,” not “There _is_ no god.” > [@fuzzypickles](#): > > There’s that B-word again. And thank you for proving my point…_finally._ > What-EVER… :rolleyes: What point of yours do you think that statement proved? That b-word came right after “don’t”. Not believing is not belief. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/53 "2011-01-26T21:52:12Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > … Most atheists say, “I don’t _believe_ there is a god,” not “There _is_ no god.” Self proclaimed atheists can say anything they want but atheism is contrary to what you said above. The “I don’t believe there is a god” is arguably a theistic position, acknowledging a possible existence of a god and stating a personal preference not to believe in it. You can even use any meaning you want for the word “believe”. Anything that allows for the existence of a god is a subset of theism, even agnosticism. Atheism is the opposite idea, that no gods exist as a universal reality, not as a personal preference. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/54 "2011-01-26T21:57:06Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > How is your desire to save people from “mythology” any different from their desire to save people from “hell”? We have evidence that mythology exists. There is no evidence for hell. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/55 "2011-01-26T21:58:23Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > Self proclaimed atheists can say anything they want but atheism is contrary to what you said above. > > The “I don’t believe there is a god” is arguably a theistic position, acknowledging a possible existence of a god and stating a personal preference not to believe in it. You can even use any meaning you want for the word “believe”. > > Anything that allows for the existence of a god is a subset of theism, even agnosticism. Atheism is the opposite idea, that no gods exist as a universal reality, not as a personal preference. Wha…? 😕 What makes you think that my kind of atheism is just a mere “personal preference”? I am **STRONGLY** convinced that no god exists, but because I’m not, you know, _omniscient_ :rolleyes:, I cannot definitively rule out the ( **extremely unlikely** ) possibility. How is admitting to the **infinitesimally small possibility** of an unknown god’s or gods’ extistence “arguably a theistic position”? You’ve described it as such, but you’ve not actually demonstrated an actual link between the two. :dubious: Further, I’m not “allowing for” an existence of a god. I’m allowing for the _possibility_ of such. That’s a key difference here, and I don’t think you’re grasping it. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/56 "2011-01-26T22:13:32Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > Atheism is a refusal to accept as true statements that claim the existence of the supernatural. Strictly speaking, all atheism means is that the atheist lacks belief in a deity or deities. It doesn’t necessarily encompass the entire realm of the supernatural. I’ve known atheists who believe in ghost, vampires, and all that sort of stuff but look down their nose at theists because God is _such_ a such a silly idea. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/57 "2011-01-26T22:20:54Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > … I cannot definitively rule out the … possibility [that a god exists]. As I said above, that’s a subset of theism. Trying to quantify possibilities and compare a strong to a weak or infinitesimal one is silly. > [@](#): > > Further, I’m not “allowing for” an existence of a god. I’m allowing for the _possibility_ of such. That’s a key difference here, and I don’t think you’re grasping it. Take yourself and the human mind out of the equation. Either gods exist or not, irregardless of how some intelligence in the universe perceives the question. A statement that they exist, in any shape, form, or possibility, is a theistic position of some sort. A statement that they don’t is an atheist position. The two are mutually exclusive and many other terms and intermediate stages of accepting the existence of gods are mostly irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/58 "2011-01-26T22:22:49Z")
No, an absence of a particular belief is not a “subset” of that belief’s That’s a ridiculous and absurd position. Is not believing in smurfs a subset of belief in smurfs? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/59 "2011-01-26T22:24:25Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > Self proclaimed atheists can say anything they want but atheism is contrary to what you said above. > > The “I don’t believe there is a god” is arguably a theistic position, acknowledging a possible existence of a god and stating a personal preference not to believe in it. No, it’s not. Theism is belief in God/gods. Not having that belief is not a theistic position. I can acknowledge that the existence of everything is possible yet not have a belief in the existence of everything. Personal preference doesn’t enter into it. I may prefer to believe that I’ll win the lottery some day, but that preference won’t help convince me to actually acquire that belief. > [@](#): > > You can even use any meaning you want for the word “believe”. What? > [@](#): > > Anything that allows for the existence of a god is a subset of theism No. I can believe that the existence of gods are possible yet be without belief. That’s not theism. > [@](#): > > Atheism is the opposite idea, that no gods exist as a universal reality, not as a personal preference. Wrong. Read the following. [http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutatheism/p/atheism101.htm](http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutatheism/p/atheism101.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983/60 "2011-01-26T22:27:17Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > …I’ve known atheists who believe in ghost, vampires, and all that sort of stuff but look down their nose at theists because God is _such_ a such a silly idea. That’s why what people call themselves is not to be taken seriously. Atheism is incompatible with all claims of anything supernatural. Otherwise Christians could be atheists just because they’re not Hindu. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-right-danny-c-there-is-no-god/568983.md?page=4)