# You're teaching your kid a nice lesson in bigotry there **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 1, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-teaching-your-kid-a-nice-lesson-in-bigotry-there/657210 "2013-05-01T15:36:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-teaching-your-kid-a-nice-lesson-in-bigotry-there/657210/41 "2013-05-01T20:15:49Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > If Sam’s family really are Christians, you’d think they realized that Christ spent much of his time hanging out with the scumbags of his day (prostitutes and tax collectors). Somehow I don’t think He’d approve of treating gay people as if they had cooties. But I’m only a lapsed Roman Catholic, so what do I know? How is this “no, I’m not the one who’s going to hell for doing Christianity wrong, YOU are” thing working out for the liberal religious? It seems incredibly obvious that for so long as the “abandon all reason and morality and just do whatever the fuck you want and say Jesus mandated it” card remains on the table, they’re going to have just an easy time playing it for homophobia as you do for tolerance. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-teaching-your-kid-a-nice-lesson-in-bigotry-there/657210/42 "2013-05-01T20:25:18Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > When I was in third grade, I was–well, not quite _lusting_–I was greatly appreciative of the charms of Phyllis Coates (the brunet Lois from _The Adventures of Superman_ and Maureen O’Hara (the first Jane in the Weismueller Tarzan movies). Why couldn’t a male third-grader today know that he thinks Shia Lebouf (however it’s spelled) is hot? I can remember when I was probably five or so, watching reruns of Ron Ely’s Tarzan on TV in the loincloth and getting a funny feeling “down there”, although I was 18 before I ever uttered the words, “I’m gay”, so yes, even kids as young as that can have SOME idea of their orientation, even if they don’t dare say so. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-teaching-your-kid-a-nice-lesson-in-bigotry-there/657210/43 "2013-05-01T20:33:25Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > How is this “no, I’m not the one who’s going to hell for doing Christianity wrong, YOU are” thing working out for the liberal religious? It seems incredibly obvious that for so long as the “abandon all reason and morality and just do whatever the fuck you want and say Jesus mandated it” card remains on the table, they’re going to have just an easy time playing it for homophobia as you do for tolerance. Not if people actually read the New Testament. Jesus never talks about homosexuality at all. But he does speak out against divorce (funny how so many of these supposedly religious people are just fine with that), and spends a great deal of time excoriating the false piety of the Pharisees and harshly criticizing the wealthy. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-teaching-your-kid-a-nice-lesson-in-bigotry-there/657210/44 "2013-05-01T20:50:38Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > AAARGHH. > 3. Getting back to your son, look at the lesson you are teaching him. What is it exactly? “Gay people need to be avoided”? “Gay people are a threat”? “We Christians are better than those people”? One day - and I pray it won’t be too late - Sam is going to meet some real live gay people and find out that they’re perfectly nice and normal and good and not some kind of depraved monsters. And then he’s going to have a crisis of belief - either his parents are full of shit, or their religion is. And one thing I _do_ remember Jesus saying is something about causing children to stumble, and [millstones](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+18:6&version=NIV). > > Sam is a really sweet kid. You’re doing a great job of screwing him up. First off all, agree 100% with all three of your points. Let me share a bit of my personal life as it relates to your third point that I’ve quoted above. I was a Cub Scout and Boy Scout until the age of 13. At 13, we moved to a different city and state and I no longer participated in scouting. It was great for the time I was in it and my comments really are not specifically relevant to Scouting as you’ll see momentarily. At 13, in a new city and state, my mother became heavily involved in one of these fundie Christian churches. This also included sending me to their crazy fundie Christian school where I was taught much of the same things this boy is getting from his parents. I did not know anyone who was gay (I’m sure there were closeted people but I didn’t know of their orientation), my entire social world was the church and my friends in the school for the church. It was a very insular world to say the least. Through high school I did become involved in other non-church organizations and began developing social relationships outside that bubble but almost everything I was taught about the world to that point was from that same bubble of fundie Christianity. The “secular world” with all its implied sins and sinners ready to take me away from The One True Path to salvation. :rolleyes: After graduation, following on my ability to build relationships outside the church I made more and more friends of different backgrounds and beliefs. This first came through people I’d meet at work, including -gasp- gay people. That really began what was a longer process for me of evaluating what I was taught about the world and gay people and the Bible’s position on homosexuality versus what I was seeing in the day to day lives of actual gay people. Much to you hope and wishes for this boy, I made that leap from a fundie Christian upbringing to where I am today. So do not lose hope. Some of the values I learned in scouting certainly played a part in my own ability to make this change - be respectful, honest, truthful, and kind to others. Observation and interaction with people outside my bubble also gave me new perspectives (that I was open to) and I had a willingness to question my beliefs vs. the reality of their lives as gay people and yes - even the teachings of Jesus. Perhaps some of the values already taught via scouting will also stick with this boy and in the future he’ll be better equipped to balance the faith of his parents against his own path in this world. Anyway, just a little story about me for what it is worth. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-teaching-your-kid-a-nice-lesson-in-bigotry-there/657210/45 "2013-05-01T21:05:46Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > Evangelism should only be limited to loving and charitable acts…not by words that hate and divide…otherwise one should not consider themselves evangelists at all…but goats in sheep’s clothing instead. My personal approach to evangelism is not to use words at all. If someone asks me about Jesus, I’ll try to tell them; if they don’t ask, I’ll try to show them. > [@stpauler](#): > > So, is belonging to the Scouts to begin with teaching kids that bigotry can be ignored? Yeah, the Scouts policy then and now suck for GLBT people. Moreover, have they even budged on their atheist exclusion or is that bigotry still ok? What I’m saying is, it’s an unstable soapbox to be on there. No argument, but I can only control what I can control. I can make my den a welcoming place for boys of any type, and teach them the values of kindness and respect. I can encourage my pack to do the same. My pack has never inquired about a scout’s orientation or religion much less threatened to exclude anyone for it, but if they did I would certainly not stand for it. > [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > How is this “no, I’m not the one who’s going to hell for doing Christianity wrong, YOU are” thing working out for the liberal religious? It seems incredibly obvious that for so long as the “abandon all reason and morality and just do whatever the fuck you want and say Jesus mandated it” card remains on the table, they’re going to have just an easy time playing it for homophobia as you do for tolerance. :rolleyes: I didn’t say anyone was going to hell. Nor am I abandoning “all reason and morality.” Jesus said jack shit about homosexuality; but he did say that the second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. Sooner, rather than later, the BSA is going to have to consider this again. Their latest attempt at a compromise is just a Solomon’s baby that pisses off both sides of the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-teaching-your-kid-a-nice-lesson-in-bigotry-there/657210/46 "2013-05-01T21:10:30Z")
Also, I realize that many people become aware at an early age that they are attracted to one sex or another - I remember crushing on a girl in the first grade. But kids at that age are not sexual beings. If anything, telling Johnny he can’t be a Cub Scout because he wants to marry Justin Bieber is even more stupid then if he really knew what he was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-teaching-your-kid-a-nice-lesson-in-bigotry-there/657210/47 "2013-05-01T21:11:29Z")
Seriously, would a third grader consider Shia Lebouf attractive? Maybe a member of One Direction, but Shia? I feel for the poor kid. Hopefully he’ll develop a group of friends outside his parents’ seclusion zone and see that there is a wonderful variety of people out there. Some good, some bad but each interesting in their own way. The foreign exchange program I work with has a saying. It is normally used in describing encounters with the cultures of other countries but it applies here as well. “There is no right, there is no wrong. Just different.” Learn about the differences and accept the people for who they are. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-teaching-your-kid-a-nice-lesson-in-bigotry-there/657210/48 "2013-05-01T21:18:09Z")
> [@Slypork](#): > > Seriously, would a third grader consider Shia Lebouf attractive? Maybe a member of One Direction, but Shia? I don’t know what the One Direction is. I picked Shia because he was the only young male celebrity I could associate with a face other than Justin Bieber, and I didn’t feel like courting Bieber jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-teaching-your-kid-a-nice-lesson-in-bigotry-there/657210/49 "2013-05-01T21:32:18Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > How is this “no, I’m not the one who’s going to hell for doing Christianity wrong, YOU are” thing working out for the liberal religious? The ones I know seem to be perfectly satisfied with just saying “No, I’m not going to hell for doing Christianity wrong”. But then, they (unlike some of my fellow atheists, alas) are not smug self-righteous assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-teaching-your-kid-a-nice-lesson-in-bigotry-there/657210/50 "2013-05-01T21:34:22Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I could associate with a face other than Justin Bieber, and I didn’t terrible decision ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-teaching-your-kid-a-nice-lesson-in-bigotry-there/657210/51 "2013-05-02T00:14:43Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > Gosh, I really don’t understand how people can be this uncaring and rigid. I’m glad I am not a Christian because if I were I’d be even more irritated… Irritated Christian here. Who had an awesome gay Scoutmaster as a kid. Hell, yeah, we all knew. But did we care? No, we were too busy just being kids, and scouts was a great way to get outside and build some fires. I did ask my ordinarily-homophobic parents about “Mr. Sam”, and they said “Oh, we could tell, but he never seemed like the type that would try anything. And if he did, you could’ve decked him.” eta: Now I’m the Scoutmaster, and we got kicked out of the church we were sponsored by because of the anti-gay policy (“exclusionary”… and sinful policy, I’d add). The “Oh, well, we’ll meet you halfway” revision is too little, too late. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youre-teaching-your-kid-a-nice-lesson-in-bigotry-there/657210.md?page=2)