# YouTube and Copyrighted Music **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 1, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553 "2015-02-01T23:15:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/22 "2015-02-03T23:03:10Z")
It’s a hassle to download stuff off of YouTube? There are Firefox plugins that make it a matter of a mouse click to do so. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/23 "2015-02-03T23:15:20Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It’s a hassle to download stuff off of YouTube? There are Firefox plugins that make it a matter of a mouse click to do so. Well maybe it’s just me, but it seems like those are sort of hit-or-miss as to whether they’ll actually work at any given time. The standalone programs also have a nasty habit of installing malware. ---
**Author:** ![vomit\_comet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/73ab20/32.png) [@vomit\_comet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vomit_comet)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/24 "2015-02-04T04:22:40Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > It’s also a not entirely trivial amount of hassle dealing with the third party tools to download something off the site. That probably deters enough people that content owners have a decent chance of converting Youtube views into legitimate digital download sales. Used to be you could go into your cache and find the file that was cached for a particular video and rename it with a video extension and play with VLC, I think they caught onto that though. The unregistered version of Jing will allow recording of anything on your screen for up to 5 minutes at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_York](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_York](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_York)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/25 "2015-02-04T05:51:18Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > It’s also a not entirely trivial amount of hassle dealing with the third party tools to download something off the site. That probably deters enough people that content owners have a decent chance of converting Youtube views into legitimate digital download sales. Internet Download Manager does, very quickly. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/26 "2015-02-04T07:49:44Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Some uploaders get around the copyright issue for music by increasing the speed slightly, so the entire song/album is one key higher. If a song’s in C major, it now plays as D major. I’d be very surprised if that worked in most cases. Modern fingerprinting and watermarking technologies for video and audio are designed to be robust against trivial transformations (such as altering the speed, transposition, scaling, cropping, transcoding, voice-overs, superimposing subtitles or logos, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/27 "2015-02-06T02:24:40Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Some uploaders get around the copyright issue for music by increasing the speed slightly, so the entire song/album is one key higher. If a song’s in C major, it now plays as D major. There is a test site where that option was explored. I’m not going to search for it right now, but please, be my guest. The outcome was that the comparison algorithms (and this was just a few years ago) were amazingly sophisticated and level and sample rate changes did not disturb them at all. You pretty much had to distort the song beyond recognition for it to pass the filter. A minor pitch change absolutely didn’t work. I’m currently battling a copyright dispute – I think it’s fair use, YouTube’s copyright claimant does not. So far, I’ve been able to render the song backwards without a copyright claim, but you might argue that backwards defeats the purpose. Maybe. If I can indulge in a mini-rant here…I fail to see what purpose this policy serves. Should royalties be paid? If so, why doesn’t YouTube collect those from viewers at a fair rate from the advertising they charge for already? Since that isn’t happening, the end result is that the public is denied the experience of listening to the song, the video is removed or corrupted, and the copyright holder gets nothing. That’s Dog In The Manger thinking, and everyone loses. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/28 "2015-02-06T02:29:53Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > I don’t see how your conclusion follows from your premise. Outrageously false positives are more likely the work of a computer algorithm, not a human. But we need not speculate on who’s doing the scanning, since YouTube openly says that it runs the Content ID system itself (see for example [Qualifying for Content ID](https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/1311402?hl=en)), and there’s plenty of corroboration of this by rights holders (such as [Zoe Keating](http://zoekeating.tumblr.com/post/108898194009/what-should-i-do-about-youtube)), many of whom are independent artists who could not possibly hope to scan through millions of uploads themselves. YouTube may do the scanning, but none of the copyright claims I have received have been from YouTube, but third parties, supposedly the copyright holders. I’d say about 80% of them are bogus beyond belief (A Palestrina copyright, anyone?). As Dick Shawn said in _Springtime for YouKnowWho_, “They try, oh how they try!” ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/29 "2015-02-06T03:10:29Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > If I can indulge in a mini-rant here…I fail to see what purpose this policy serves. Should royalties be paid? If so, why doesn’t YouTube collect those from viewers at a fair rate from the advertising they charge for already? Since that isn’t happening, the end result is that the public is denied the experience of listening to the song, the video is removed or corrupted, and the copyright holder gets nothing. That’s Dog In The Manger thinking, and everyone loses. While I hate to even sound like I might be defending some of the RIAA-type jerks out there, copyright means having the right to dictate how a work is distributed, or even if it is distributed at all. If I don’t want additional copies out there, it’s my right as an owner to prevent them. Eventual public domain should take care of ny lasting value to society, though that’s another rant entirely… I also have the right to make exclusive arrangements for distribution of my work. If I start putting full Game of Thrones episodes on YouTube, HBO should absolutely be within their rights to have them taken down. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/30 "2015-02-06T03:19:14Z")
> [@dzeiger](#): > > While I hate to even sound like I might be defending some of the RIAA-type jerks out there, copyright means having the right to dictate how a work is distributed, or even if it is distributed at all. If I don’t want additional copies out there, it’s my right as an owner to prevent them. Eventual public domain should take care of ny lasting value to society, though that’s another rant entirely… You are correct as to the rights. My comment was directed at the practical outcome…the copyright holder gets no money, YouTube gets no income, the public gets no music, and the video producer can’t express his desired artistic expression. What benefit is there to this policy, and to whom? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/31 "2015-02-06T04:16:19Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > If I can indulge in a mini-rant here…I fail to see what purpose this policy serves. Should royalties be paid? If so, why doesn’t YouTube collect those from viewers at a fair rate from the advertising they charge for already? It’s the decision of the copyright holder to determine how its works will be distributed. It’s up to YouTube to decide how to structure its revenue model. It doesn’t want to directly charge users because that will inhibit its popularity. In fact, as has been mentioned, many copyright holders agree to license works to YouTube in exchange for a share of advertising revenue. However, it’s the right of the copyright holder to decide that it’s too small. > [@](#): > > Since that isn’t happening, the end result is that the public is denied the experience of listening to the song YouTube is _not_ the sole outlet for the public to hear music. It never has been. The music industry made a ton of money before YouTube existed. The current YouTube, Spotify, Pandora, etc., models are for shit as far as artists are concerned. They make micropennies per stream. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/32 "2015-02-06T04:30:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > YouTube is _not_ the sole outlet for the public to hear music. It never has been. The music industry made a ton of money before YouTube existed. The current YouTube, Spotify, Pandora, etc., models are for shit as far as artists are concerned. They make micropennies per stream. And they are making less than micropennies for CD sales right now. So maybe they need to adjust to the times or expire? Bring back LPs! When men were men, and sheep were groovy! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/33 "2015-02-06T04:50:52Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > And they are making less than micropennies for CD sales right now. So maybe they need to adjust to the times or expire? Actually, they still make more from CDs than they do from streaming. They also make more from legal downloads (iTunes, etc.) than they do from streaming. If there are absolutely no sources of revenue that offer them a living, then they will expire. That still doesn’t mean they should let you enjoy their work for free. More likely, they’ll just stop making it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/34 "2015-02-06T16:10:28Z")
> [@vomit\_comet](#): > > I presume the first ‘they’ is the copyright holder and the second ‘they’ would be Youtube. Since it’s your post I find it slightly worrying that you have to make such presumptions. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/35 "2015-02-06T17:44:11Z")
Why is a video site the number one place on the internet for streaming audio? Can I send someone a link to a song without them having to watch a video consisting of various still photos of the artist? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/36 "2015-02-06T17:50:48Z")
Yes. Use Soundcloud or Reverb Nation. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/37 "2015-02-06T18:33:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes. Use Soundcloud or Reverb Nation. I’ve heard of Soundcloud but I thought it was more like a Spotify-type internet radio. I’ll have to check these out now, thanks. That said, why are there so many non-videos on Youtube if there are alternative sites that don’t require a video component? Is it just a matter of Youtube came first and is more popular? Or does Google’s size and weight protect allegedly infringing content in a way Soundcloud can’t? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/38 "2015-02-06T18:41:22Z")
There are a number of factors, one being that Youtube has become the go-to site for people looking for audiovisual comment as a matter of habit. You can search without first creating an account. Its close tie-in with the Google search engine is certainly relevant. Youtube’s entire business model is based in taking advantage of its safe harbor to capitalize on infringement. Spotify is more a legitimate radio operation. It doesn’t rely on user-generated infringement. If Spotify hosts infringing content, it will get sued out of business. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/39 "2015-02-06T18:41:29Z")
I think it’s just that YouTube has videos _and_ audio (and has been around longer), and Soundcloud _et al._ are sort of having to compete with file sharing sites. That, and search engine power. If you Google a song, YouTube is probably going to be in the first couple of hits and audio-only sites aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/40 "2015-02-06T20:26:20Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > Why does YouTube allow people to post copyrighted music that can be easily downloaded to a computer? Because they can get away with it. [Viacom](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viacom_International_Inc._v._YouTube,_Inc.) sued them, but lost. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553/41 "2015-02-06T20:47:01Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Because they can get away with it. [Viacom](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viacom_International_Inc._v._YouTube,_Inc.) sued them, but lost. Viacon didn’t lose. The case was set for jury trial and the parties settled. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/youtube-and-copyrighted-music/711553.md?page=1)