# Yvette Felarca: heroine? ... or terrorist? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 7, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237 "2017-02-07T16:13:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/201 "2017-02-17T22:34:45Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Punching Nazis is un-American? [Sez who?](http://comicsalliance.com/files/2015/10/cap-punching-hitler-630x387.jpg) > > The only reason the Founding Fathers didn’t punch Nazis is because Nazism hadn’t been invented yet. But if it had, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin and even Alexander Hamilton would have lined up behind Captain America to give them a good punch in the face. > > My Grandfather didn’t storm the beaches at Normandy so a fucking Nazi could cry like a baby when a crazy old lady punched him. My Grandfather actually worked on Liberty Ships, but he surely didn’t build those Liberty Ships for a goddam Nazi. > > First they came for the Nazis, and I screamed “Now we see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I’m being repressed! Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That’s what I’m on about! Did you see him repressing me? You saw him, didn’t you?” Punching anyone because of something they believe (no matter how deplorable) or say is unAmerican. If the content of their speak falls into one of the few categories of illegal speech, we have laws to handle the situation. My Grandmother didn’t storm Nazi tanks with Molotovs and a Masur taken off a dead enemy battle before to become like the Nazi. My Great Uncle Walde didn’t march into Berlin just because he wanted to kick some Nazi ass. He wanted to get to the West to the American lines to the dream of a country where it didn’t matter who you were or what you believed, the law protected everyone equally. Part of creating a better society is that we all have to let the lunatic fringe be lunatic fringe as long as they aren’t harming anyone other them themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/202 "2017-02-17T22:46:08Z")
And again, she’s not a hero because she punched a Nazi. She’s an idiot, and if she faced charges for it, she’d have it coming. I’m just not UPSET that a crazy lady punched a Nazi, and didn’t get charged for it. Should we encourage the punching of Nazis? No. Should we be all “Robo-captain, do you not realize that by destroying the Nazis because of their destructive tendencies we too have become like…well it’s ironic because we…” No. A Nazi got punched by a crazy lady, and she escaped justice. Oh well. That’s life in the rough and tumble world of college campus protests. I’m not happy and I’m not sad. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/203 "2017-02-17T22:55:16Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > And again, she’s not a hero because she punched a Nazi. She’s an idiot, and if she faced charges for it, she’d have it coming. > > I’m just not UPSET that a crazy lady punched a Nazi, and didn’t get charged for it. Well Christ on a cracker. isn’t that just what I was saying??? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/204 "2017-02-17T23:04:28Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Well Christ on a cracker. isn’t that just what I was saying??? Yes, but your insufficiently-full-throated denunciations of Nazi-punching makes you worse than a Nazi. I guess. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/205 "2017-02-17T23:08:57Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Yes, but your insufficiently-full-throated denunciations of Nazi-punching makes you worse than a Nazi. I guess. I stand before you, chastised 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/206 "2017-02-18T01:23:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > No, actually, those are not the competing principles. And also, goddamn, #2 DOES NOT OUTCOMPETE #1. Is your monitor broken or something? How big a font do I need to put that in? Then why do you admire someone who hit a Nazi who was protesting? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/207 "2017-02-18T01:27:25Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Someone makes real honest-to-god white supremacist arguments, like that Spencer asshole? They could use a good solid punch to the head. > > Giving them one, in a stable society in which there are solid protections for free speech, causes more problems than it solves, so I won’t advocate a good solid punch to the head for white supremacists in such a society. But you say you admire someone who did. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/208 "2017-02-18T01:32:07Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I’m just not UPSET that a crazy lady punched a Nazi, and didn’t get charged for it. Should we encourage the punching of Nazis? So you’re not upset that someone commits violence against an American exercising his rights and she didn’t get arrested? Nice to know you believe in oppressing some people’s constitutional rights. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/209 "2017-02-18T02:30:15Z")
Were you upset when George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin and got away with it? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/210 "2017-02-18T02:32:30Z")
It’s just amusing to see you so, so, so, so upset over this horrible infringement of some Nazi’s rights. I mean, he got lightly punched by some crazy woman! That’s going to scar him. It’s chilling, if you’re a Nazi Snowflake, to know that this kind of violence is lurking just beneath the surface of every Liberal in America. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/211 "2017-02-18T02:44:53Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > It’s just amusing to see you so, so, so, so upset over this horrible infringement of some Nazi’s rights. I mean, he got lightly punched by some crazy woman! That’s going to scar him. It’s chilling, if you’re a Nazi Snowflake, to know that this kind of violence is lurking just beneath the surface of every Liberal in America. Just wait until we all turn green and start yelling about “puny 'servatives” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/212 "2017-02-18T02:56:14Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > But you say you admire someone who did. Why? You have me confused with someone else. Which is understandable, because you’re a goddamn idiot. So I can’t blame you. But I never said what you think I said, so you should maybe try to stop embarrassing yourself . ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/213 "2017-02-18T03:29:53Z")
Oh, shit. You think I’m septimus. No, I’m not septimus. You can tell, because we have different usernames. No wonder you’re confused! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/214 "2017-02-18T07:26:46Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Were you upset when George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin and got away with it? This isn’t about George Zimmerman, you nut. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/215 "2017-02-18T16:46:13Z")
Look, if one instance of someone getting away with a crime puts our whole American system of justice and free speech in jeopardy, then don’t all instances of people getting away with crimes do the same thing? I’m not upset that some crazy bitch got away with the minor crime of ineffectually punching a Nazi. Does her getting away with this horrible, horrible, no-good misdemeanor mean that America is on the verge of collapse? If so, then I can cite dozens, hundreds, thousands of instances of people getting away with crimes much much worse than lightly punching a dude. If one unpunished punch is all it takes to destroy America, then gee, I guess America was finished a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/216 "2017-02-18T23:10:22Z")
I ran a stop sign and got away with it once. The fall of the West is all my fault. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/217 "2017-02-19T00:46:31Z")
If i have to base this off the linked youtube video She is neither, i do not see a hero nor a terrorist. I see assault, multiple counts of assault. I do not see what lead up to this, i do not see him hit her at any point, i see lots of people hit push kick and stomp him. I have no love for nazis neo or old, but in this country, we do not go assaulting someone for their opinion, regardless of how awful the opinion is. If her group acts this way to people whose opinions they do not like, even if the opinion is awful, but those people have not committed any act of aggression, wouldn’t that make her group exactly the thing they supposedly dislike? Is there more facts to this story? Is there something that happened that is not in the video? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/218 "2017-02-19T10:12:01Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > This isn’t about George Zimmerman, you nut. Wrong. The defence of evil on legalisms is an underlying theme in this thread. I asked whether those happy that the Nazis stabbed the antifas, sending several to hospitals were of the same ilk that were happy to see Zimmerman acquitted of his depraved-heart murder of Martin. None of the Nazi supporters answered. I think that silence is an answer. > [@Weisshund](#): > > Is there more facts to this story? Is there something that happened that is not in the video? Before the first video? No, the “antifas” were happy to use force first. The name of their organization is _ **By Any Means Necessary** _. Between the 1st and 2nd videos there was a general melee in which antifas attacked Nazis with rocks(?), and some of the Nazis responded by stabbing with knives. I don’t argue that the Nazis had no right to “stand their ground”: certainly the “antifas” were standing theirs. But the main “fact” that people are missing is that there is more at stake here than one incident in Sacramento. Racist anti-immigrant feelings have been on the rise all over Europe. Many of us liked to imagine that America was a special melting-pot but lately, especially with the rise of Donald Trump, that veneer is shattered. Democracy(\*) is on the decline. Racist Nazi demonstrations are on the rise in the West, along with anti-Nazi counterprotests. Expect to see this get worse before it gets better. (\* - Democracy refers to liberty, equality, fraternity. Contrary to Trumpists and Nazis it does NOT mean the 51% can do whatever they ant to the 49%.) What is to be done? Elect a Trump and then just say “Ho hum. Maybe the Nazis will get apathetic after deporting a million or two and things will return to normal” ? Or take to the ballot boxes and streets and fight racism and Naziism? I don’t know. One thing I do know: Blacks didn’t get the right to vote by sitting back and saying “Ho hum. Maybe whites will get tired of persecuting us after a while.” Instead MLK raised America’s conscience … but Malcolm X and the Black Panthers played their roles. Will the BAMN movement do more good than harm. _I don’t know. That’s why I started this thread_: Is she a heroine? … or just a terrorist? But I have no sympathy for those whose “take-away” is only “whine whine, she assaulted a Nazi and didn’t get arrested. Unfair. Next thing, not only will Nazi activists be at risk but ordinary racist assholes like us will be at risk too!” ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/219 "2017-02-19T14:03:14Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Wrong. The defence of evil on legalisms is an underlying theme in this thread. > > I asked whether those happy that the Nazis stabbed the antifas, sending several to hospitals were of the same ilk that were happy to see Zimmerman acquitted of his depraved-heart murder of Martin. None of the Nazi supporters answered. I think that silence is an answer. > > Before the first video? No, the “antifas” were happy to use force first. The name of their organization is _ **By Any Means Necessary** _. Between the 1st and 2nd videos there was a general melee in which antifas attacked Nazis with rocks(?), and some of the Nazis responded by stabbing with knives. I don’t argue that the Nazis had no right to “stand their ground”: certainly the “antifas” were standing theirs. > > But the main “fact” that people are missing is that there is more at stake here than one incident in Sacramento. > > Racist anti-immigrant feelings have been on the rise all over Europe. Many of us liked to imagine that America was a special melting-pot but lately, especially with the rise of Donald Trump, that veneer is shattered. Democracy(\*) is on the decline. Racist Nazi demonstrations are on the rise in the West, along with anti-Nazi counterprotests. Expect to see this get worse before it gets better. > > (\* - Democracy refers to liberty, equality, fraternity. Contrary to Trumpists and Nazis it does NOT mean the 51% can do whatever they ant to the 49%.) > > What is to be done? Elect a Trump and then just say “Ho hum. Maybe the Nazis will get apathetic after deporting a million or two and things will return to normal” ? Or take to the ballot boxes and streets and fight racism and Naziism? I don’t know. > > One thing I do know: Blacks didn’t get the right to vote by sitting back and saying “Ho hum. Maybe whites will get tired of persecuting us after a while.” Instead MLK raised America’s conscience … but Malcolm X and the Black Panthers played their roles. > > Will the BAMN movement do more good than harm. _I don’t know. That’s why I started this thread_: Is she a heroine? … or just a terrorist? But I have no sympathy for those whose “take-away” is only “whine whine, she assaulted a Nazi and didn’t get arrested. Unfair. Next thing, not only will Nazi activists be at risk but ordinary racist assholes like us will be at risk too!” Maybe the reason no Nazi supporters has answered your inane question is because there are no Nazi supporters here. You, and others, want to feel good about enacting violence against people you don’t like and make it morally justifiable, in your own heads by labeling those people as Nazis, or racist, or whatever. Quite frankly, based on your self-serving equivocations (i.e. describing people who have disagreed with you here as racists) you are in no position whatsoever to make any moral judgements about anything or anyone; you are trying to contrive a narrative in which your violent tendencies are a noble thing. Hint: they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/220 "2017-02-19T14:29:08Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Punching anyone because of something they believe (no matter how deplorable) or say is unAmerican. If the content of their speak falls into one of the few categories of illegal speech, we have laws to handle the situation. My Grandmother didn’t storm Nazi tanks with Molotovs and a Masur taken off a dead enemy battle before to become like the Nazi. My Great Uncle Walde didn’t march into Berlin just because he wanted to kick some Nazi ass. He wanted to get to the West to the American lines to the dream of a country where it didn’t matter who you were or what you believed, the law protected everyone equally. Part of creating a better society is that we all have to let the lunatic fringe be lunatic fringe as long as they aren’t harming anyone other them themselves. They are harming people other than themselves. Racism is inherently harmful. Being racist in public in an attempt to change our government is harmful. Americans have used violence to fight bigotry throughout our country’s history. It’s not ideal, but it happens. Trying to brand it as “un-American” is ignoring American civil rights history. The main argument here is whether it’s actually helpful. Not some weird appeal to patriotism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237.md?page=12)