# Yvette Felarca: heroine? ... or terrorist? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 7, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237 "2017-02-07T16:13:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/141 "2017-02-16T15:45:47Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Are you that bent out of shape over my inability to feel sympathy for a Nazi scumbag? No I’m bent out of shape that you think the only people that deserve protection while protesting are those you agree with. You’re probably that asshole that drives on the shoulder then cuts everyone off without signalling because “Fuck them. I have to get to work on time.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/142 "2017-02-16T16:25:19Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > When right wing nuts start violently attacking people merely for speaking post a link and I’ll criticize them as well. At the moment it’s the left acting like thugs and hoodlums and they need to be called out on it. [For real](http://www.businessinsider.com/man-punched-and-choked-protesters-at-north-carolina-trump-rally-2016-9)? You weren’t paying much attention during the campaign, were you? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/143 "2017-02-16T17:17:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No. That’s not what the left stands for. The Left stands for social justice, equality, and stuff like that. They do indeed. For those who agree with them. > [@](#): > > It’s the Right that deifies freedom of speech, turning it into a value in and of itself. It is a virtue in and of itself. But you are correct - the Left turns it on and off, according to whether someone agrees with them or not. The Right does it too, but this thread is a particularly clear demonstration of the lefties doing it. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/144 "2017-02-16T18:02:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It is a virtue in and of itself. Meh. This is something that can be disagreed on, especially if it appears in opposition to other things. If your freedom of speech is resulting in my loss of access to health care, we’ve got–at least according to some approaches–competing principles. It’s possible to resolve that conflict in different ways. Strong support for free speech is also possible from a pragmatic perspective. I have no real interest in protecting the speech of a Nazi _for the sake of the Nazi_; rather, protecting their speech is a necessary byproduct of protecting the speech of others. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/145 "2017-02-16T18:40:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No. That’s not what the left stands for. The Left stands for social justice, equality, and stuff like that. > > It’s the Right that deifies freedom of speech, turning it into a value in and of itself. It’s the Right that uses “tolerance” as an excuse to allow the intolerant to do whatever they want, when tolerance is inherently intolerant of intolerance. > > It’s ridiculous that you keep on defending Nazis as “people who disagree with liberals.” They aren’t. A Nazi is a dangerous person who want to hurt others. They want to destroy the basis of society itself. Nazis are, frankly, evil. > > I am 100% intolerant of Nazis. They are the enemies of tolerance. To tolerate them would make me racist, since I’d have to let them do racist things. When the whole goal of tolerance is to stop racism and other forms of bigotry. > > This is just an attempt by the Right to completely neuter the left by misrepresenting what the Left actually stands for. > > It’s not going to happen. You got Trump in office. That’s pretty much the wakeup call liberals needed to realize that this namby-pamby love circle shit ain’t gonna do anything. We have to fight and continue to fight for the rights of the oppressed. > > And not that of the oppressors. Another ignoramus. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/146 "2017-02-16T18:42:44Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Impartiality is not inherently a virtue. An impartial justice system that ignores the actual harm to society is not a good one. > > Yes, it’s true that there is racism in our justice system, and that is an example of a bad type of partiality. But that’s because racism serves no good purpose. > > I think we can all agree that stopping Nazis is a good thing. I’m not saying you have to support violence in stopping a Nazi, but we do agree they are bad. A proper justice system will inherently take this into account when weighing the harm done by the person attacking them. > > I very much expect that the sentence will be lighter for these people. And I think that’s okay. There is something worse about about attacking an innocent person rather than attacking a Nazi. And there is something far more worse in attacking a minority for being a minority. > > So, yeah. Let the law handle it. I’m not going to get morally invested in this, like I would if this were some great injustice. Guy is horrible, and inspired someone to risk the punishment of the law to be horrible to him. > > The law will do a good enough job. I will continue to not violently harm Nazis (or anyone else) and go about my life. I just can’t really care. I can spare a moment of sympathy for the guy and for the attackers. But then I’m done. Listen, dummy, I’m typing this slow just for you. If you want freedom in a society you need to strongly support everyone’s rights. Not just those who you agree with. Or risk being labeled something and then physically attacked. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/147 "2017-02-16T18:46:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Meh. This is something that can be disagreed on, especially if it appears in opposition to other things. As the punchline goes, we already know what you are - now we are just dickering. > [@](#): > > If your freedom of speech is resulting in my loss of access to health care, we’ve got–at least according to some approaches–competing principles. That’s a new one. Free speech for all - except Nazis, and those who oppose Obamacare. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/148 "2017-02-16T20:45:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As the punchline goes, we already know what you are - now we are just dickering. A pragmatist? Yup. I don’t trust ideologues. > [@](#): > > That’s a new one. Free speech for all - except Nazis, and those who oppose Obamacare. If you set your imagination free like that, yeah, you can come up with all sorts of new ones. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/149 "2017-02-16T21:09:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The Right does it too, but this thread is a particularly clear demonstration of the lefties doing it. No it is a thread is a demonstration of the lefties defending and admiring it. That’s a whole new level. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/150 "2017-02-16T21:24:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > A pragmatist? If you are claiming you are a pragmatist then you sir have lost the argument. It may make sense to you and SteveG1 to say that we should ignore the rights of Nazi because they’re Nazi but that is impractical because you cannot define who should have protection from assault. Abortion activists? Wait, should it be pro-life women-oppressors or pro-choice baby-murderers that should be assaulted when they protest? See? How practical is that? I don’t know who I should shove. I think I have a very practical view - EVERYONE should be allowed to exercise their rights without being assaulted. So let’s test your pragmatism. Today is Día Sin Inmigrantes. Which protestors is it OK to shove? The pro-illegal-immigration ones or the anti-illegal-immigration ones? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/151 "2017-02-16T23:49:41Z")
I challenge you to read _[The Turner Diaries](http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/TurnerDiaries.pdf)_ and then tell me that nazis should be treated with dignity and respect. You will find the part around chapters 21-23 especially inspiring or disturbing, depending on your personal perspective. This is how those people think. This is what their speech is. If a man stands before a crowd and says, “_Kill that there guy!_” it is not clear whether he ought to be free to say that. Nazi speech is _exactly the same_ as that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/152 "2017-02-16T23:57:29Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > If you are claiming you are a pragmatist then you sir have lost the argument. > … > > So let’s test your pragmatism. Today is Día Sin Inmigrantes. Which protestors is it OK to shove? The pro-illegal-immigration ones or the anti-illegal-immigration ones? No. If you think I’ve lost the argument, you’ve completely failed to understand the argument. If the anti-illegal-immigration protestors are white supremacists, the answer to your question is: neither. Not because I don’t think white supremacists need a good solid punch to the head–I do–but because there’s no way to protect the pro-immigrant protestors without also protecting the white supremacists. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/153 "2017-02-17T00:28:04Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I challenge you to read _[The Turner Diaries](http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/TurnerDiaries.pdf)_ and then tell me that nazis should be treated with dignity and respect. You will find the part around chapters 21-23 especially inspiring or disturbing, depending on your personal perspective. > > This is how those people think. This is what their speech is. If a man stands before a crowd and says, “_Kill that there guy!_” it is not clear whether he ought to be free to say that. Nazi speech is _exactly the same_ as that. It isn’t about dignity or respect. It is about a fundamental right to not be physically harmed. (Note, your ‘Kill that guy’ example is bullshit. Inciting violence is a [crime](http://freespeechdebate.com/en/case/the-brandenburg-test-for-incitement-to-violence/)you worthless piece of shit. Learn something before you post, fucktard) The nazi guy in the video is an ass. But the woman who assaulted him is an ass as well. And guess what, the person who resorts to violence to silence those that they disagree with is a larger threat to liberty and peace than those who do not resort to violence. Geezus. What a bunch of sad fuckers you all have turned into when you defend violence to shut up unpopular opinions. The way to win isn’t by beating people, even if the opinion being stated is ignorant and despicable. That doesn’t work. It gives ammunition to the very people are trying to defeat. It is stupid and counter productive. By the way, this > [@](#): > > Which is to say, she was not pushing and punching him without his permission. He said, “hey, over here, come and get me”, which totally negates your argument, because he himself incited the violence against him. is the stupidest thing posted on the internet this week. Guess what? You win a fascist kewpie doll Slee ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/154 "2017-02-17T03:19:06Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > No. If you think I’ve lost the argument, you’ve completely failed to understand the argument. > > If the anti-illegal-immigration protestors are white supremacists, the answer to your question is: neither. Not because I don’t think white supremacists need a good solid punch to the head–I do–but because there’s no way to protect the pro-immigrant protestors without also protecting the white supremacists. So your pragmatism boils down to: beat people that have unpopular (according to you) views. So tell us all who we are allowed to beat when they protest. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/155 "2017-02-17T03:35:52Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > No I’m bent out of shape that you think the only people that deserve protection while protesting are those you agree with. You’re probably that asshole that drives on the shoulder then cuts everyone off without signalling because “Fuck them. I have to get to work on time.” Good for you. Stay bent out of shape. Forever , for all I care. You Aren’t satisfied that I have repeatedly said the law will handle this. That’s not good enough. You have some sick compulsive need to to convince me I must worry abut the Nazi’s well being and his freedom to be a Nazi scumbag. Well it ain’t gonna happen. Are you a Nazi or something? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/156 "2017-02-17T03:37:46Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > … The nazi guy in the video is an ass. But the woman who assaulted him is an ass as well. … > is the stupidest thing posted on the internet this week. Guess what? You win a fascist kewpie doll > > Slee Ironic, defending our dislike or apathy toward a fascist Nazi scumbag makes US the fascists What. The. Fuck, ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/157 "2017-02-17T05:47:56Z")
Seriously, when I hear nazis (any white pride group), I hear, “_You displease me. I want to kill you_.” That is the summary essence of their “speech”. That is a threat, which is not protected by the first amendment. And, anyway, I am not the government, so it is not my responsibility to protect anyone’s speech rights or chastise anyone else for encroaching upon them. The Constitution protects us from excesses of the government, not from each other. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/158 "2017-02-17T05:57:27Z")
Aren’t we conflating a few things here? One is the misdemeanor assault charge, whatever the law is in the locality where this happened. Yeah, an unwanted touch that doesn’t hurt someone is some kind of misdemeanor. You can get charged for that. But cops don’t have to arrest someone over every little infraction. They often have better things to do. Complaining that the cops didn’t arrest this crazy bitch because she ineffectively punched some guy is silly. Cops don’t arrest people all the time. Cop sees a crazy bitch take a swing at a nazi, and yawns? So what? I mean, she’d have no justification for complaining if he did arrest her, or give her a ticket, or whatever the heck he’s supposed to do for no account unwanted touching in his locality. Or he could do nothing, in which case the nazi has no recourse either, unless he wants to file a civil suit. The other part is kicking the crap out of the nazi. And lo and behold, the cops wade in to break it up this time, instead of yawning. Still no arrests? So? Their main job at this point is to break it up. If breaking it up requires arresting people, then arrest away. If not, not. The other part is the nazis stabbing people, which appears to be unrelated. Point is, it’s not AN OUTRAGE that some crazy bitch took a swing at a nazi, and the cops yawned. Is it against the law for crazy bitches to punch people, even if they’re completely feeble? Yeah it is. Are the cops obligated to charge her? No they aren’t. If a crazy bitch punches you ineffectively, does that give you the legal or moral right to punch her back in self defense? It depends. You can use force to defend yourself…but that use of force has to be justifiable. A feeble crazy bitch taking an ineffective swing at you might or might not be taken by a jury as reasonable grounds for self defense. Like, is it really reasonable? Were you really justifiably scared? Maybe you were, and that’s why you beat the crap out of that crazy bitch and put her in the hospital. And take your time explaining this to the jury during your trial, and if the jury believes you then good for you, you get to walk home a free man. It is not the case that “they started it” always gives you the legal right to respond with physical force. The mere fact that someone committed a crime by punching you doesn’t automatically give you the legal right to punch them back. And absent video or convincing witnesses, good luck convincing the jury that you were afraid of that little old lady that you beat into a coma. You might feel you have the moral right to use any sort of violence against anyone who starts a violent confrontation with you, but the law doesn’t always agree. So before you punch that crazy criminal bitch back, consult a lawyer licensed to practice in your locality. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/159 "2017-02-17T06:34:36Z")
Thank you **Lemur866** for your intelligent remarks. And sorry for wasting your time. It wasn’t my intent that the thread fill up with blather about the Nazis being denied their _ **freedom** _. These Nazi-symps (each of whom expresses joy when the Nazis start stabbing with knives to protect their _ **freedoms** _) are the same proud Americans delighted that their President had the _ **freedom** _ to incarcerate a five-year old kid for five hours whose crime was wanting to visit his mother coincident with the Presidential Executive Fart? (The _kid_’s “_ **freedom** _” is irrelevant.) And, although they refuse to admit it here, the scumbags in this thread — every one of them — were delighted that George Zimmerman ended the _ **freedoms** _ of Trayvon Martin forever so that Zimmercoward could demonstrate his _ **freedom** _ to carry a gun, harass whoever he wished, and murder when things turned against him. Isn’t _ **Freedom** _ wonderful? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237/160 "2017-02-17T12:17:59Z")
My guess is that many of those in this thread advocating abuse of women by men are Trumpists or Bannonists. [They may be delighted that one of their idols also seems to advocate such abuse.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tja-pKEF_YI) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yvette-felarca-heroine-or-terrorist/779237.md?page=9)