# Zany Zeolite Zipper, you are not well. Seek help. (With bonus Der Trihs pitting!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795 "2011-01-16T04:25:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/61 "2011-01-16T15:55:53Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What if the homeowner has forgotten about the cameras? What if he only ever reviews the recordings if something unusual happens like suspected burglary or vandalism? Or, in this case, a false rape accusation? > > Is sleaziness solely in the results of one’s actions, or is it a state of mind? Assuming it was totally innocent, then I’d expect no less of the homeowner than to immediately destroy the recording. Anything else is just creepy. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/62 "2011-01-16T16:15:30Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Assuming it was totally innocent, then I’d expect no less of the homeowner than to immediately destroy the recording. Anything else is just creepy. Well, it could be the case that he doesn’t think about the recordings at all, except in this unusual case of a false rape accusation, at which point he starts to think of ways to defend himself including, oh by the way, a recording of some of the events at the house. In any case, if the accusation is false, he may or may not be a sleaze, but she is certainly a liar. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/63 "2011-01-16T16:22:41Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Der would not obtain consent for the recording, because innocent and guilty alike are sure to refuse. Der Trihs feels that he is entitled to sex under circumstances that he himself assumes no woman would consent to. > [@](#): > > Therefore Diana assumes that Der would have _sex without consent, full stop_. Not such a huge leap. Now, I don’t believe that Der Trihs is an actual rapist. Or even a misogynist. He’s just an amoral misanthrope. I’m certain he’d have no problem treating absolutely anyone with as little decency as he would treat his hypothetical sexual partners. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/64 "2011-01-16T16:25:40Z")
@Bryan… Any man who feels the need to protect against false rape accusations has got more screws loose than a Studebaker. Perhaps he should choose those he (or she) beds with his head rather than his/her crotch. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/65 "2011-01-16T16:38:15Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Any man who feels the need to protect against false rape accusations has got more screws loose than a Studebaker. Possibly, and this is something Quartz’s hypothetical friend and Der Trihs may have in common, but I can buy the possibility that the recordings are made to protect the homeowner against various crimes, primarily burglary and vandalism. Certainly once the false accusation has been made (regardless of what the accusation is specifically _of)_), the man is entitled to protect himself by impeaching (or at least trying to impeach) the credibility of the accuser. This is something of an impasse. I can buy that the man _might_ be sleazy, but I accept the possibility that he might not, and in any case the simple act of slapping on a “sleazy” label accomplishes very little. To the specific issue of this thread, I get the impression Zipper was egging Diana on in the other thread because her reaction was so energetic and comical, and Der Trihs was just being his usual self, which by now should surprise and outrage absolutely no-one. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/66 "2011-01-16T16:42:49Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > No, you’ve got it backwards. If A then B does not imply the reverse. The implication is that if \*\*DianaG \*\*were intending to falsely accuse someone of rape then she would object to being taped. It is also the case that \*\*DianaG \*\*would object to being taped even though she had no malicious intention, which means you can’t conclude anything about her intentions from her refusal. > > What is amusing is to see the hasty generalising going on. Der would not obtain consent for the recording, because innocent and guilty alike are sure to refuse. Therefore Diana assumes that Der would have _sex without consent, full stop_. It’s perfectly possible to consider Der’s notions lunatic without applauding the logic of his opponents. 😃 I would object to being taped because everyone knows that men put that stuff up on their facebook pages to get revenge after they get dumped. Women have to protect themselves from that kind of shit. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/67 "2011-01-16T16:48:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What if the homeowner has forgotten about the cameras? What if he only ever reviews the recordings if something unusual happens like suspected burglary or vandalism? Or, in this case, a false rape accusation? > > Is sleaziness solely in the results of one’s actions, or is it a state of mind? Reread the OP of the original thread. There’s no indication that the homeowner ‘forgot’ about the cameras. There is, in fact, the indication that he’s fully aware of them, because “sometimes a man needs more than a condom for protection”. :rolleyes: The question is “Is it okay to record sexual encounters without the consent of your sexual partners?” The answer is “No.” And ultimately, this isn’t about sex. It’s about the fact that it is not okay to treat people badly just in case they turn out to be bad people. It is, in fact, insane troll logic. There are honest and decent ways of protecting yourself that don’t involve violating trust. If you’re an honest and decent person, you’ll stick to those methods. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/68 "2011-01-16T16:51:49Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Now, I don’t believe that Der Trihs is an actual rapist. Or even a misogynist. He’s just an amoral misanthrope. I’m certain he’d have no problem treating absolutely anyone with as little decency as he would treat his hypothetical sexual partners. “And not to boast,” growled the sallow-faced man, smoothing back one oily forelock and tapping an aerosol burst of Binaca across his yellowed teeth, “but I’ve had a _lot_ of hypothetical sex partners…” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/69 "2011-01-16T17:09:21Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > The question is “Is it okay to record sexual encounters without the consent of your sexual partners?” The answer is “No.” I’d add the small caveat that it depends what plans (if any) were made for these recordings. > [@](#): > > If you’re an honest and decent person, you’ll stick to those methods. Sorry, I don’t subscribe to such categorization. It’s too close to the “No True Scotsman” fallacy for me. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/70 "2011-01-16T17:12:06Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Agreed, but “legal” does not equal “ethical”, as I think we can all agree. And videotaping your sex partners without their consent is, at a minimum, unethical. > > ETA that my daughter just said “‘morally bankrupt’ is the term that comes to mind”. I’m inclined to agree with her. > > I’d also like to add that while bashing Der Trihs is fun for the whole family and all, we should not forget Zipperhead. His feelings might get hurt. If video taping your sex partners without their consent is unethical, what is having a child without their consent and extorting 18 years of salary garnishment out of your sex partner? Video taping people without their consent may be a little skeevy, but if you have already agreed to let someone penetrate your body or for you to penetrate theirs, I think a demand for privacy about that act is a non-issue where the other partner is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/71 "2011-01-16T17:16:29Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > If video taping your sex partners without their consent is unethical, what is having a child without their consent and extorting 18 years of salary garnishment out of your sex partner? Video taping people without their consent may be a little skeevy, but if you have already agreed to let someone penetrate your body or for you to penetrate theirs, I think a demand for privacy about that act is a non-issue where the other partner is concerned. Well, you can always go with the hole in the sheet method if want to keep it all kosher. PS. Man I love the Turnip. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/72 "2011-01-16T17:17:17Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > I noticed this quote in the linked thread: > > Is this actually something that anyone really does? Who are these people who are so terrified of everyone they associate with? In my experience there are people who are capable of anything. Most people aren’t sociopaths, but enough are (and divorce proceedings are some of the cess pits of family law), that it is better to be safe than sorry. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/73 "2011-01-16T17:18:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’d add the small caveat that it depends what plans (if any) were made for these recordings. That’s not a small caveat, that’s a nullification. What else is it okay to do to a person without their consent, as long as you personally feel your plans merit it? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/74 "2011-01-16T17:20:00Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I think Stop that, no good comes of it. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/75 "2011-01-16T17:20:08Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Well, you can always go with the hole in the sheet method if want to keep it all kosher. > > PS. Man I love the Turnip. Wouldn’t that make identifying the parties in the sex act more difficult? All the Jews I know say the hole in the sheet method is an urban legend as far as they are concerned. It was depicted in Like Water for Chocolate, but I have never heard independent conformation of that custom from any Mexican or Mexican-American people. ---
**Author:** ![Alice\_The\_Goon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Alice\_The\_Goon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alice_The_Goon)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/76 "2011-01-16T17:26:29Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > In my experience there are people who are capable of anything. Yeah, like there are people that actually think that women who get pregnant without their partner’s consent should be\* killed\*. :eek: Can you _imagine_?? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/77 "2011-01-16T17:27:10Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I simply do not believe this. Sorry. > > I generally try, on this message board, to give credence to people’s accounts of their own personal experiences, and i know that some people say incredibly stupid shit, but i just don’t believe that you have heard anyone make this argument. One of **DT** ’s common debate tactics is to refer to some article he read some time ago, but doesn’t remember exactly where so he can’t cite it. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/78 "2011-01-16T17:47:09Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Wouldn’t that make identifying the parties in the sex act more difficult? All the Jews I know say the hole in the sheet method is an urban legend as far as they are concerned. It was depicted in Like Water for Chocolate, but I have never heard independent conformation of that custom from any Mexican or Mexican-American people. Its a joke son. But it would technically make the act more “private” (but in a silly way IMO). You need to watch more Larry David. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/79 "2011-01-16T17:47:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > This is fairly distressing - I’ve always assumed that \*\*Der Trihs’ \*\*insanity was limited to his politics and views on religion, and other than that, he was a fairly normal guy. Regrettably, I stand corrected. No kidding. That bit about the wives photographing their husbands bathing the kids so that later on they can accuse the guy of being a kiddy-fiddler is just… wow. Wow. That’s impressively crazy even for an Internet message board. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/80 "2011-01-16T17:52:52Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > That’s not a small caveat, that’s a nullification. I’m not sure what this means. > [@](#): > > What else is it okay to do to a person without their consent, as long as you personally feel your plans merit it? It’s not clear to me that anything is being done to anyone, less so if the situation is as I described in one case - the video being temporarily stored and discarded without review unless an inquiry is made. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795.md?page=5)