# Zany Zeolite Zipper, you are not well. Seek help. (With bonus Der Trihs pitting!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795 "2011-01-16T04:25:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/81 "2011-01-16T18:09:54Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m not sure what this means. The answer to “Is it okay to record sexual encounters without the consent of your sexual partners?” is “No.” Full stop. It’s not “No, unless…” There is no wiggle room here, because obtaining consent is not a matter to be left to your discretion. The \*consent \*is the issue here. It doesn’t matter what your plans for the video are. Planning to distribute the video would certainly be a worse offense than the situation you describe, but that doesn’t make the situation you describe okay. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/82 "2011-01-16T18:12:01Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s not clear to me that anything is being done to anyone, less so if the situation is as I described in one case - the video being temporarily stored and discarded without review unless an inquiry is made. Filming a unsuspecting person in a very private act is sick. Any attempt to justify such behavior, for whatever reason, is simply wrong. I"d suggest the following document if guys are worried about a false rape charge. The undersigned parties agree to fornicate on (date) at (location) a total of (number of times). Signed -( party 1) Signed - (party 2) Notarized by: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/83 "2011-01-16T18:12:17Z")
Perhaps as a child, **Der Trihs** was bullied daily by conservative Christian girls who threatened to accuse him of rape when he got older? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/84 "2011-01-16T18:19:54Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Filming a unsuspecting person in a very private act is sick. Any attempt to justify such behavior, for whatever reason, is simply wrong. Slapping on simplistic labels (even if accurate, and these aren’t) doesn’t clarify matters. I guess you and I (and Diane and I) will just have to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/85 "2011-01-16T18:39:22Z")
I guess, because I really don’t see what’s complicated about it. It is not okay to violate the trust of a person who has done you no harm, and whom you have no evidence means you harm. People who do that are not nice people, so I suppose it’s not surprising that they expect other people to be as rotten as they are. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/86 "2011-01-16T18:44:35Z")
Be that as it may, I can probably construct a hypothetical in which the homeowner’s actions are less and less unreasonable, but if the response is always going to be “It’s sick/sleazy/wrong/rotten”, then there’s not much point. As a minor aside, leaving a thread while claiming concern over implied threats of violence is one serious act of passive-aggressive pussification. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/87 "2011-01-16T18:51:23Z")
You could, but they’d get more and more contrived. I just can’t see how one forgets that they have cameras in their bedroom. And, well, that’s our Der Trihs. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/88 "2011-01-16T18:59:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > As a minor aside, leaving a thread while claiming concern over implied threats of violence is one serious act of passive-aggressive pussification. Thats called debate rape. Nothing funny at all about it Mr. Ekers (if that is your real name that is). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/89 "2011-01-16T19:02:57Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > You could, but they’d get more and more contrived. The base situation is pretty out there to begin with. How many people actually videotape everything in their homes in case of false accusation? I can imagine an observer (who wouldn’t bother taking such actions for himself) who doesn’t instantly and irrevocably conclude the choice is sick or immoral or whatever, depending on how well the homeowner can justify the decision. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/90 "2011-01-16T19:04:15Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Mr. Ekers (if that is your real name that is). It is, I can prove it, I have video. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/91 "2011-01-16T19:08:42Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Be that as it may, I can probably construct a hypothetical in which the homeowner’s actions are less and less unreasonable… Maybe, but then you wouldn’t be talking about the same hypothetical \*\*ZZZ \*_came up with. His hypothetical, and the sleaziness/ickiness/moral reprehensibility, call it what you like, are predicated on: the man knowing, the woman not knowing, the man knowing she doesn’t know, the man not telling her_ and having sex with her in front of a camera the man knows is recording. That’s ick. Contrive a hypothetical that doesn’t include all of those (“After he installed the video camera, he got hit on the head falling off the ladder in his bedroom and forgot all about the installation of the camera!”), and you’ve got a different hypothetical. \ ***Der Trihs** was the one, I believe, who added on the lovely bit specifically about not telling her \*because \*he knows she wouldn’t consent, and that, to me, takes it beyond sleazy and into rape. Videotaping oneself or someone else during masturbation and/or sex is \*itself \*a sexual act. **Der Trihs** is saying that he would force a woman to perform a sexual act that he knows she would not consent to. That’s rape, in my book, and may very well be legally sexual assault, to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/92 "2011-01-16T19:17:18Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Maybe, but then you wouldn’t be talking about the same hypothetical \*\*ZZZ \*\*came up with. Yes, but I figure that ZZZ was, at least in part, being crude and contrary just to annoy Diane. And Der Trihs was being contrary just because, well… he’s Der Trihs, and he has a reputation to uphold. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/93 "2011-01-16T19:19:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It is, I can prove it, I have video. If that video has some bow chicka chicka music in it, I might be interested in subscribing to your online newsletter…I’ll pay extra if it has a live feed… I wonder what folks position on women doing “background checks” on their new boyfriends/potential boyfriends is? I get the impression this is almost standard operating procedure these days for the dating/internet savy crowd. Do they get written consent first? Because I know as a guy, if some chick did that, implying that I wasnt trustworthy, well, I’d just feel all dirty and violated. She violated my trust. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/94 "2011-01-16T19:22:50Z")
[Wonder no more.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=546731) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/95 "2011-01-16T19:23:46Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I wonder what folks position on women doing “background checks” on their new boyfriends/potential boyfriends is? I get the impression this is almost standard operating procedure these days for the dating/internet savy crowd. Do they get written consent first? Because I know as a guy, if some chick did that, implying that I wasnt trustworthy, well, I’d just feel all dirty and violated. She violated my trust. I think Google and Facebook are fair game. Actually hiring an agency to do an official background check without consent? Wrong. Not \*as \*wrong as videotaping someone during sex without their consent because you know they won’t consent, but still wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/96 "2011-01-16T19:41:53Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Perhaps as a child, **Der Trihs** was bullied daily by conservative Christian girls who threatened to accuse him of rape when he got older? I don’t think you should be showing up here to cast stones at someone else’s social inadequacy, toots, even if you _have_ decided the consensus opinion is overwhelming enough for you to pop your head out. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/97 "2011-01-16T20:41:18Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > \ ***Der Trihs** was the one, I believe, who added on the lovely bit specifically about not telling her \*because \*he knows she wouldn’t consent, and that, to me, takes it beyond sleazy and into rape. Videotaping oneself or someone else during masturbation and/or sex is \*itself \*a sexual act. **Der Trihs** is saying that he would force a woman to perform a sexual act that he knows she would not consent to. That’s rape, in my book, and may very well be legally sexual assault, to boot. Look, i would never videotape someone having sex without their consent, but you’re way off base here. While taping someone like that might be sleazy and immoral, and in some jurisdictions is probably illegal, it’s not rape. If she consents to the sex act and he films her without her knowledge, it’s not rape, any more than if she sleeps with him because he tells her he’s a stockbroker when he’s actually a stockboy. Calling it rape is immature and stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/98 "2011-01-16T20:56:14Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > I don’t think you should be showing up here to cast stones at someone else’s social inadequacy, toots, even if you _have_ decided the consensus opinion is overwhelming enough for you to pop your head out. I’m not the one constantly making outrageous, exaggerated claims about those whose viewpoints I disagree with. :rolleyes: We’re talking about a guy who has said in the past that Christians would put atheists in concentration camps if they choose, and that pro-lifers are gleeful when women die in childbirth. The guy’s a walking nutbar. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/99 "2011-01-16T21:09:19Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Look, i would never videotape someone having sex without their consent, but you’re way off base here. > > While taping someone like that might be sleazy and immoral, and in some jurisdictions is probably illegal, it’s not rape. If she consents to the sex act and he films her without her knowledge, it’s not rape, any more than if she sleeps with him because he tells her he’s a stockbroker when he’s actually a stockboy. Calling it rape is immature and stupid. I wouldn’t call it rape either, but you’re off base as well. Its more akin to neglecting to tell her he has herpes. No matter whether he’s a stockbroker or a stockboy, she agreed to sex. She did not agree to herpes. Or video. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/100 "2011-01-16T21:15:38Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I wouldn’t call it rape either… And yet you already did. You said: > [@WhyNot](#): > > \ ***Der Trihs** was the one, I believe, who added on the lovely bit specifically about not telling her \*because \*he knows she wouldn’t consent, and that, to me, **takes it beyond sleazy and into rape**. Videotaping oneself or someone else during masturbation and/or sex is \*itself \*a sexual act. **Der Trihs** is saying that he would force a woman to perform a sexual act that he knows she would not consent to. **That’s rape, in my book** , and may very well be legally sexual assault, to boot. By your own admission, all he was saying was that he would tape her without consent, not that he would force her to commit an act that she didn’t want to do. > [@DianaG](#): > > Its more akin to neglecting to tell her he has herpes. No matter whether he’s a stockbroker or a stockboy, she agreed to sex. She did not agree to herpes. Or video. Never suggested otherwise. But, while sleeping with someone while withholding the fact that you have herpes makes you an immoral asshole, it _also_ is not rape, which was the part of your post that i was responding to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795.md?page=6)