# Zany Zeolite Zipper, you are not well. Seek help. (With bonus Der Trihs pitting!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795 "2011-01-16T04:25:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/101 "2011-01-16T21:16:55Z")
That woulda been a real “gotcha!” moment, if only I were WhyNot. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/102 "2011-01-16T21:21:40Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I wouldn’t call it rape either, but you’re off base as well. Its more akin to neglecting to tell her he has herpes. No matter whether he’s a stockbroker or a stockboy, she agreed to sex. She did not agree to herpes. Or video. News flash. Herpes is REAL, with real world effects. A non consensual video of you having sex, that isnt reviewed, or distributed, that you have NO idea that it exists is pretty much a theorectical construct with no real world implications. You don’t know it exists. You dont even know your consent was violated. And, again, even if your consent was violated without your knowledge, it has no effect in the real world. Its right up there with being upset that imaginary angels are calling you bad names. Or watching you while your screwing like a rabid pug with epilepsi (I just stole that). Its kinda like being against guns for real world bad effects you think they cause. That can at least be rational. But being against guns just because doesnt carry alot of philosophical weight. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/103 "2011-01-16T21:25:24Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > In my experience there are people who are capable of anything. Most people aren’t sociopaths, but enough are (and divorce proceedings are some of the cess pits of family law), that it is better to be safe than sorry. I just can’t believe that there are people out there who go into a marriage thinking “this person may or may not prove to be a sociopath, so I better prepare for my inevitable divorce by finding ways to falsely prove that my husband was a child molester!”. Why on earth would you marry someone if you thought they had any chance at all of being a sociopath? Why would a man marry a woman who treated him with such thinly veiled suspicion? How is is possibly a defence to say that just because some people in the past have done something completely mental, it is okay to regularly do something completely mental to defend yourself? Look, I get that there are genuine sociopaths out there, and there have been crazy cases where people have been screwed over. But if you are so highly paranoid that you cannot extend even the most basic trust to the people that you choose to date and even _marry_, then maybe you are better off just living alone. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/104 "2011-01-16T21:25:43Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > That woulda been a real “gotcha!” moment, if only I were WhyNot. :smack: Well, fuck me sideways, on a video camera. Sorry about the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/105 "2011-01-16T21:29:25Z")
billfish, video (actual video, not the hypothetical video of the OP) is real, and its security is \*never \*guaranteed. I strayed from that aspect of the hypothetical in this instance, because it wasn’t terribly relevant to the conversation I was having with mhendo. You’re welcome to continue to stick on that aspect of the hypothetical which allows you to say it’s fine to videotape a person without their consent if your intent isn’t to use the video. I’ll continue to disagree with you. mhendo, no worries. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/106 "2011-01-16T21:54:33Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > News flash. Herpes is REAL, with real world effects. A non consensual video of you having sex, that isnt reviewed, or distributed, that you have NO idea that it exists is pretty much a theorectical construct with no real world implications. You don’t know it exists. You dont even know your consent was violated. And, again, even if your consent was violated without your knowledge, it has no effect in the real world. > > … So, following the same logic, a guy who has sex with a woman who is unconscious or otherwise unaware of what he’s done (comatose, etc) has “\* no real world implications. You don’t know it exists. You dont even know your consent was violated. And, again, even if your consent was violated without your knowledge, it has no effect in the real world.\*” Is this your position? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/107 "2011-01-16T22:08:13Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > So, following the same logic, a guy who has sex with a woman who is unconscious or otherwise unaware of what he’s done (comatose, etc) has “\* no real world implications. You don’t know it exists. You dont even know your consent was violated. And, again, even if your consent was violated without your knowledge, it has no effect in the real world.\*” Is this your position? Are you really as stupid as this question suggests? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/108 "2011-01-16T22:18:42Z")
That really is a terrible example, but there are certainly things that you can do that don’t really harm a person that are still shitty things to do. If you took a penny out of my bank account every day for the rest of my life, I’d never notice or know about it. I certainly wouldn’t suffer any meaningful harm. Does that make it okay? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/109 "2011-01-16T22:19:51Z")
@ mhendo I’m pointing out that any idiot who thinks the “no blood, no foul” rule applies to secretly filming an individual in an intimate act because the filmed person never finds out she’s been filmed. Asinine. The _" even if your consent was violated without your knowledge, it has no effect in the real world._ line is about ridiculous as anything I’ve ever read on this board. I just inquired as to how far he was willing to continue his farce. I tried to go real slow, did you keep up? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/110 "2011-01-16T22:52:26Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I tried to go real slow, did you keep up? Keep up? Dude, i’m well ahead of you, because i understand that a physical intrusion into a person’s body is a very different thing than capturing their image on video. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/111 "2011-01-16T22:53:11Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > billfish, video (actual video, not the hypothetical video of the OP) is real, and its security is \*never \*guaranteed. I strayed from that aspect of the hypothetical in this instance, because it wasn’t terribly relevant to the conversation I was having with mhendo. > > You’re welcome to continue to stick on that aspect of the hypothetical which allows you to say it’s fine to videotape a person without their consent if your intent isn’t to use the video. I’ll continue to disagree with you. > > mhendo, no worries. 😃 If you want to argue about security issues, that makes some sense ( I am sure you are reassured about my approval of this 🙂 ) But penny theft and coma sex (oh yeah baby, oh wait, I was thinking about comma sex) are still more real and have more real world implications than some electrons sitting somewhere doing nothing. Also, the penny theft and coma sex AFAICT are not done to prevent some possible great injustice…somebody just wants free pennies and/or free hot coma putang/massive throbbing coma cock. IMO the “problem” here is you are arguing about the immorality of an act that has (or at least could have in certain scenarios) great utilility in preventing a possible action that most certainly DOES HAVE serious real world impact. Or, in the great words of Mr Spock, “the needs of the somewhat paranoid outweigh the needs of the theorectically offended”. And to be honest, I don’t necessarily totally agree with that concept. But, on the other hand, I sorta see the point and don’t automatically freak out about it either. And I got dibs on Throbbing Coma Cock as a band name so you other SDMB band member wannabees can suck on it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/112 "2011-01-16T23:09:01Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > IMO the “problem” here is you are arguing about the immorality of an act that has (or at least could have in certain scenarios) great utilility in preventing a possible action that most certainly DOES HAVE serious real world impact. It would have the exact same impact if she knew about it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/113 "2011-01-16T23:23:10Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > If you took a penny out of my bank account every day for the rest of my life, I’d never notice or know about it. I certainly wouldn’t suffer any meaningful harm. Does that make it okay? What if someone captures the photons that bounce off your account? Are you still harmed? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/114 "2011-01-16T23:26:20Z")
Help me to understand why you think it’s a silly question, in light of billfish’s argument that what I don’t know doesn’t hurt me, and anything you do is fine as long as I’m not harmed. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/115 "2011-01-16T23:32:30Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > And ultimately, this isn’t about sex. It’s about the fact that it is not okay to treat people badly just in case they turn out to be bad people. It is, in fact, insane troll logic. There are honest and decent ways of protecting yourself that don’t involve violating trust. If you’re an honest and decent person, you’ll stick to those methods. In this case, notwithstanding recording (since most people wouldn’t want to be recorded, no matter what their intentions), what would you recommend? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/116 "2011-01-16T23:34:01Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Help me to understand why you think it’s a silly question, in light of billfish’s argument that what I don’t know doesn’t hurt me, and anything you do is fine as long as I’m not harmed. Your question isn’t silly - even a minuscule theft of a cash is still a theft. My question, though, is more relevant to the videotaping issue. ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/117 "2011-01-16T23:48:19Z")
Scenario #1 **Der Trihs** gets lucky and brings a woman home for sex. He secretly video tapes her and she later falsely accuses him of rape but her dastardly accusation is foiled by his video evidence. Scenario #2 **Der Trihs** gets lucky and brings a woman home for sex. He tells her he’s going to video tape the session “for his own protection”. She says FU and leaves. Scenario #3 **Der Trihs** gets lucky and brings a woman home for sex. He secretly video tapes her but no accusation of rape is ever made. 1 and 2 result in exactly the same protection from a false accusation, the only difference being is in 2 **Der Trihs** doesn’t get any. So of course a dirtbag would choose 2. 3 results in a record, without her knowledge or consent, of an act any woman would reasonably expect to be private in the hands of a dirtbag. I think that sums up **DianaG** ’s point. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/118 "2011-01-16T23:55:38Z")
> [@Batfish](#): > > 1 and 2 result in exactly the same protection from a false accusation, the only difference being is in 2 **Der Trihs** doesn’t get any. So of course a dirtbag would choose 2. > > 3 results in a record, without her knowledge or consent, of an act any woman would reasonably expect to be private in the hands of a dirtbag. > > I think that sums up **DianaG** ’s point. Not bad, except for two things. You’ve decided what defines a dirtbag. And then you added a nice dose of circular reasoning/argument. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/119 "2011-01-17T00:05:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > This is fairly distressing - I’ve always assumed that \*\*Der Trihs’ \*\*insanity was limited to his politics and views on religion, and other than that, he was a fairly normal guy. Regrettably, I stand corrected. For a while now, I’ve been convinced that he has never had a romantic relationship in his life, and thus has bizarre notions of what such a relationship is like. Also, the lack of such a relationship is one of the things that has enabled him to have such a black-and-white view of all other issues of the world. I know that whenever I go to far off the deep end myself, my wife pulls me back. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795/120 "2011-01-17T00:08:12Z")
I would think the closest analogy are upskirt videos, which I find completely unacceptable when they are taken without consent. I would think most of us would say that if you are doing something that involves another person and you don’t ask for consent because you think they might turn you down you’re probably doing something wrong. You ask and she says no, well, she’s not the woman for you. So you’re out a sex partner. There are other sex partners. There is something insanely creepy about someone saying they can’t ask for consent because consent might not be given. That’s exactly the purpose of asking consent, to weed the willing from the unwilling. It’s really not much different than having some out-there sexual fetish, or anything else that could be a dealbreaker to others. Yes, it sucks that they won’t still sleep with you when they know you’re going to start chittering like Flipper and eating live fish in bed, but them’s the breaks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zany-zeolite-zipper-you-are-not-well-seek-help-with-bonus-der-trihs-pitting/567795.md?page=7)