# Zarqawi Killed - Will It Make A Difference? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 8, 2006, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862 "2006-06-08T09:40:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/21 "2006-06-08T12:20:14Z")
**Zarqawi Killed - Will It Make A Difference?** Well, it will to him. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/22 "2006-06-08T12:37:20Z")
[Makes a difference to Ken Bigley’s family as well](http://www.24dash.com/content/news/viewNews.php?navID=57&newsID=6662) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/23 "2006-06-08T12:44:06Z")
Just read [Bush’s statement](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/08/AR2006060800358.html) about Zarqawi’s death. Funny about how he made no mention of the three times in 2002-03, before the war, when the military was ready to pull the trigger on him, and Bush [gave them the thumbs-down](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601/) each time. Of course it’s always good when someone like Zarqawi gets bumped, and I’ll shed no more tears for him than I did for Uday and Qusay. (I [was pretty optimistic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3751152&postcount=154) about the effects of seeing those two gone, but that optimism was unwarranted.) It certainly makes things better. But if I stop to pick up a quarter on the street, it makes my life better too. The question is, materially better, or trivially better? In Zarqawi’s case, I’d say trivially. Transnational terrorism isn’t the driver of the chaos in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/24 "2006-06-08T12:49:36Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > The ever-reliable Juan Cole comments: Who has never been to Iraq. Christopher Hitchens has ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/25 "2006-06-08T12:51:12Z")
I vote for Zarqawi’s death making things **worse**. The insurgents will now consider him a martyr. Yes, a bunch of other senior people were taken out with him, but other people will replace them, ready to martyr themselves in the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/26 "2006-06-08T12:59:40Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Who has never been to Iraq. Christopher Hitchens has So has George Bush. Doesn’t appear to have made a bit of difference in how much he knows about Iraq. So has Donald Rumsfeld - remember the warm handshake photos? Doesn’t mean he hasn’t made a total cock-up of it. Al Franken has been to Iraq. I trust that means you’ll accept his opinion of the matter? I have thought of one additional positive outcome of Zarqawi’s death - It seems to have made our conservative friends here come out of their hidey holes! Welcome back my friends. Hope you’ll stay for longer than the media cycle. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Logan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Don\_Logan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Logan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/27 "2006-06-08T13:06:04Z")
Will make no difference whatsoever- I can’t believe people think this is “news”. There are thousands of people who will jump at the chance to take over his role. Did arresting John Gotti end organized crime? No. Did arresting JP Escobar end the flow of cocaine? No. This will have the same impact- none. Making a big deal of this non story is more propaganda to make the US think headway is being made. ---
**Author:** ![DeAngelo\_Williams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DeAngelo\_Williams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeAngelo_Williams)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/28 "2006-06-08T13:17:00Z")
I think this will make a difference in US and Iraqi morale. And of right now, that is probably one of the most important aspects of this war. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/29 "2006-06-08T13:33:36Z")
> [@DeAngelo Williams](#): > > I think this will make a difference in US and Iraqi morale. And of right now, that is probably one of the most important aspects of this war. Isn’t it past the point when anyone can believe a morale boost will make a difference? If you’re a US or Iraqi soldier fighting the Sunni insurgency, and tomorrow’s the same old same old, that morale boost will disappear awfully fast. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/30 "2006-06-08T13:39:34Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > So has George Bush. Doesn’t appear to have made a bit of difference in how much he knows about Iraq. > > So has Donald Rumsfeld - remember the warm handshake photos? Doesn’t mean he hasn’t made a total cock-up of it. > > Al Franken has been to Iraq. I trust that means you’ll accept his opinion of the matter? > > I have thought of one additional positive outcome of Zarqawi’s death - It seems to have made our conservative friends here come out of their hidey holes! Welcome back my friends. Hope you’ll stay for longer than the media cycle. I’m just pointing out the amount of criticism I got for expressing positive opinions on the conflict, and being called ‘Armchair Ryan\_Liam’ yet Cole, who has never been to Iraq, has been quoted to someone as gospel for those who don’t think Iraq will turn out better in the end than expected. Zarqawis death and the Iraqi governments approval of the interior and defence posts gives a substantial boost to the confidence of the Iraq government, no ones really realised that now Iraq has a full working Government which is elected and legitimate, and has now killed the number 1 terrorist in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/31 "2006-06-08T13:44:22Z")
No difference whatsoever. We’re fighting a hydra. Cut off one head and ten more grow in its place. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/32 "2006-06-08T13:56:04Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I’m just pointing out the amount of criticism I got for expressing positive opinions on the conflict, and being called ‘Armchair Ryan\_Liam’ yet Cole, who has never been to Iraq, has been quoted to someone as gospel for those who don’t think Iraq will turn out better in the end than expected. Are you really comparing your relative expertise of an armchair supporter of Bush’s misadventure to the demonstrable expertise of a man who has made his career that of Muslim studies and who has lived and studied in Muslim countries? Isn’t that a bit like saying “Well, neither Stephen Hawking nor I have ever been in a black hole, so our opinions on the matter carry equal weight”? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/33 "2006-06-08T13:56:46Z")
> [@Don Logan](#): > > Did arresting John Gotti end organized crime? No. Did arresting JP Escobar end the flow of cocaine? No. This will have the same impact- none. Making a big deal of this non story is more propaganda to make the US think headway is being made. That’s a much better analogy than my Eisenhower one. The hydra example is good too. One more martyr, a hundred more recruits for al Qaeda. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/34 "2006-06-08T14:00:50Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > And that is one of the more positive aspects of it. Because apparently the strike that made pig fodder of the old terrorist was a joint Iraqi and US operation. The Iraqi troops that was part of it, will come out of this stronger and more self-confident. Zarqawi was killed by an _air strike_. Exactly how is that going to make the Iraqi ground troops feel more confident? > [@](#): > > And it will strengthen, however slightly, the Iraqi civilians faith in the system. Like when they go to [claim the body of a relative at the morgue, and get disappeared when they do](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/21/AR2006052101154.html). As they get hauled away, their faith in the system will surely be stronger than it would have if Zarqawi hadn’t gotten killed. > [@](#): > > Of course, it’ll also have some positive influence on the morale of the US military involved in the action. I expect even the lowest-level private in Iraq knows enough that he’ll be surprised if this affects his job at all. > [@](#): > > And yes, it will have some positive effect on the US public morale. It might indeed do that. Call me a cynic, but I see no evidence to disbelieve that that’s the whole point of the way this war has been handled, from start to finish. > [@](#): > > Gotta hand it to you guys. You make Ann Coulter sound quite moderate and sane by comparison. Are we talking about the same Ann Coulter [who said the of the 9/11 widows](http://thinkprogress.org/2006/06/06/coulter-911/), “I have never seen people enjoying their husbands’ death so much”? Just wondering. > [@](#): > > The ironic thing is, that it is many of the same persons that belittle this terrorists end, that at other times will say that Bush’s greatest fault is that he hasn’t been able to catch Bin Laden. It’s certainly _one_ of his faults, but the competition for Bush’s _greatest_ failing is a bit too intense for that to even make the quarterfinals. The Iraq war; the absence of any significant homeland security, five years after 9/11, that doesn’t involve domestic spying; the domestic spying; the mess that is post-Katrina New Orleans; massive budget deficits; the fuckup/Big Pharma subsidy that is the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit; the failure to address global warming; workers’ wages that are still stagnant in the fifth year of the recovery; astoundingly large trade deficits; you name it. But nearly 5 years after Bush’s “dead or alive” remark, bin Laden’s still on the loose - and probably hiding in the territory of our good buddy and supposed ally in the GWoT, Pakistan. That’s not exactly impressive, in a bunch of ways. > [@](#): > > Well Zarqawi was an evil man. And the world is a little bit better place today than yesterday, because today he is dead. And that’s pretty much all that can be said about it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/35 "2006-06-08T14:07:59Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I’m just pointing out the amount of criticism I got for expressing positive opinions on the conflict, and being called ‘Armchair Ryan\_Liam’ yet Cole, who has never been to Iraq, has been quoted to someone as gospel for those who don’t think Iraq will turn out better in the end than expected. Juan Cole’s got a daily blog going back several years. If you think his analysis has been weak, there’s reams of material for you to use to make your case. Same with anyone else who’s been commenting on Iraq for awhile. Heck, feel free to comb through _my_ old posts from 2002-03 and see how they stack up against Hitchens, who’s been to Iraq. (I haven’t.) > [@](#): > > no ones really realised that now Iraq has a full working Government which is elected and legitimate, and has now killed the number 1 terrorist in Iraq. We killed Zarqawi with an air strike. And Iraq’s government is ‘working’ in the sense of the major positions being filled, and they’re meeting at the appropriate times. You may have noticed that they don’t exactly govern the country that they’re the official government of. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/36 "2006-06-08T14:16:36Z")
I know how impossible it would have been, but the first thing I thought when I heard the news was “too bad they couldn’t capture him”. He must have known at least a few things of value to the Coalition. I simply have no idea if this will make a substantive difference or not, in the long run. News analysts say most probably not, and I think what informs their opinion mostly is not so much an assessment of Zarqawi’s importance to the insurgency, but the lack of a positive impact other such killings have had on the violence. Cautiously, I’d say there may even be an increase in violence in the short term, as Sunni forces step up anti-Shia attacks to send a defiant message. After that? Really tough to say. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/37 "2006-06-08T14:30:01Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > … **Ryan L** … > > Are we talking about the same Ann Coulter [who said the of the 9/11 widows](http://thinkprogress.org/2006/06/06/coulter-911/), “I have never seen people enjoying their husbands’ death so much”? Go carefully. Our **Ryan** is expert on Ms Coulter, living in Manchester UK and all. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/38 "2006-06-08T14:42:56Z")
If anything were more predictable than the sun rising in the east, it would be the Usual Suspects falling all over each other denying that any success in the war on terror was a success. Next most predictable will be the instant flip-flop from “why aren’t we concentrating on bin Laden” to “this is meaningless” when and if we kill bin Laden. Knee-jerk condemnation of everything and anything related to Bush and the war on terror. Imagine my surprise. 😉 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/39 "2006-06-08T14:58:51Z")
This is the Iraq War, dude, not the pretend War on Terror. Get your wars straight. “Victory” in Iraq isn’t even very relevant. I never opposed the war because I thought we wouldn’t win. Winning it doesn’t make it right. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2006, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862/40 "2006-06-08T14:59:38Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > Go carefully. Our **Ryan** is expert on Ms Coulter, living in Manchester UK and all. I don’t know what you imply by that since I didn’t even talk about Coulter, but if you’re implicating that because I support the Iraq war, the Iraqi government, and the Iraqi peoples attempts to build a government they elected, your assertions are wildly out of place. > [@](#): > > **RTFirefly** > > Juan Cole’s got a daily blog going back several years. If you think his analysis has been weak, there’s reams of material for you to use to make your case. > > Same with anyone else who’s been commenting on Iraq for awhile. Heck, feel free to comb through my old posts from 2002-03 and see how they stack up against Hitchens, who’s been to Iraq. (I haven’t.) I take whatever Juan says with a pinch of Salt, most of what he talks about is off the mark even with relative facts. [http://iraqpundit.blogspot.com/](http://iraqpundit.blogspot.com/) This blog punches a few holes in what he says, and has added value because it comes from an Iraq. > [@](#): > > We killed Zarqawi with an air strike. And Iraq’s government is ‘working’ in the sense of the major positions being filled, and they’re meeting at the appropriate times. The Iraqi police got around the area first and surrounded it, helped claim Zarqawis body, intelligence was also dependent on Iraqis, all the US did was primarily blow the bastard to bits. > [@](#): > > You may have noticed that they don’t exactly govern the country that they’re the official government of. Yes they do, they carry out the daily functions of government, are the main force of political process, progress or no progress within the country. In terms of what they don’t ‘govern’ is the logistical aspects of the Iraqi army which is being trained, and the airspace which given the circumstances, they can’t control for the foreseeable future. All which is understandable considering it’s only been 3 years since the toppling of the Hussein regime. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zarqawi-killed-will-it-make-a-difference/359862.md?page=3)