# Zealous Atheists are just as bad as zealous christians **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2002, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zealous-atheists-are-just-as-bad-as-zealous-christians/135861 "2002-11-08T08:59:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zealous-atheists-are-just-as-bad-as-zealous-christians/135861/81 "2002-11-11T16:52:44Z")
> [@](#): > > _ **IzzyR** wrote:_ > Not sure what you mean by this. My point was that people might want public schools (& media & government) to reflect some religion because of the influence on their own children, as opposed to being solely interested in influencing the children of others. (It would have that effect as well, but people’s attitudes are shaped - at least in part - by the consideration I’ve described). Makes no difference what word is used for this. I agree with your overall point here, but would quibble that people might want public schools, et. al., to reflect _some_ religion because of the influence on their own children - quite the contrary, people resent such influence unless such influence is substantially similar to _their_ religious views. And my ongoing point is that athiests, generally, have no motivation or incentive for such influence. Some people may infer that athiests’ desire to take the Christian doctrine out of schools and government as their attempt to push “the athiest agenda”, but that is just either myopic or simple-minded. It would be the consistent position of Muslim parents (or any other major religion besides Christianity), because at least _they_ recognize how silly it would be to try and impose their views on everyone else’s children. Perhaps **TwistofFate** suggests the same misconception here: > [@](#): > > _ **TwistofFate** wrote:_ > I also detest one group hoisting their religious (or anti-religious) beliefs onto everyone by trying to make them law. Is supporting the separation of church and state in law anti-religious? For example, would you agree that outlawing organized prayer in school is appropriate, but outlawing individual prayer (if you could) is anti-religious, and inappropriate? It’s this confusion between not supporting any particular religious view and being anti-religion which is frustrating. I don’t believe most athiests are anti-religion. I think most athiests support religious freedom, and respect the many good qualities that religion brings to society (while at the same time detesting the many negatives as well). ---
**Author:** ![CRorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CRorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRorex)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zealous-atheists-are-just-as-bad-as-zealous-christians/135861/82 "2002-11-11T17:09:55Z")
Despite how I man come across in some of my more anti religion posts. I don’t give a damn what you do in your spare time. Bugger sheep, have sex with someone your own sex, read the bible, sacrifice chicken wings to the great blue orb in the sky. (Not intending to say all those are the same, but I’m providing a wide choice of oppertunities for all!) Practice whatever religion you want, build churches all over the damned place, hold festivals, rallies for your faith whatever. Just the second you try to press your religion onto me, that’s when I get nasty. It’s YOUR faith, YOUR believes, consider for a second that they may not be mine. I don’t appreciate, that after politely telling you I’m not interested, you then ask, “why” or try to continue the conversation. Your god better help you if you choose the, ‘you’re a sinner and going to hell path’. Also, my personal stand point is: ANYTHING that teaches you to obey, or believe something, ANYTHING without thinking about it making sense is WRONG. It’s a form of mind control. Once you enter a situation where you’re told, this is the only right answer believe it or your wrong, you are at the mercy of the person controlling you. You’re giving up control to their world view. But, that’s my personal opinion and I’m not going to say anything if you want to live your life that way. The only other thing is, when I see chruches engaging in hate, or other crimes and the followers not rising up against it. It’s the whole situation of, if I don’t see you standing against it, I’m assuming you support it. Keep in mind, it’s not MY role to stand up against what your church is say… I’m not part of your church, it doesn’t represent MY beliefs, it represents YOUR beliefs. Keep in mind I find most beliefs amusing, god, aliens, ghosts, ESP, and whatever else. They COULD exist, but I doubt they do, and if they did, I still wouldn’t care. Unless I could get a pet alien, to play with my ghost and I could open a beer bottle with the power of my mind while an angel did the dishes. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zealous-atheists-are-just-as-bad-as-zealous-christians/135861/83 "2002-11-11T21:18:33Z")
**AZCowboy** , I’m not sure we are addressing the same issues here. I am not trying to debate the matter of teaching religion in schools here, or to discuss why an atheist (or anyone else) might object to this. I am rather addressing the comparison that was made in the title, OP, and subsequent posts to this thread. And pointing to why the abscence of “pushiness” of _any_ sort (schools being but one example) might be more palatable to atheists than to religious people. Nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zealous-atheists-are-just-as-bad-as-zealous-christians/135861/84 "2002-11-11T21:55:18Z")
**IzzyR,** and yet I still disagree. How 'bout this: The absence of “pushiness” of any sort (schools being but one example) might be more palatable to atheists _and religious people whose religious views are in the minority of society_ than to religious people _whose views are more in line with the majority of society_. Do you agree with that? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zealous-atheists-are-just-as-bad-as-zealous-christians/135861/85 "2002-11-11T21:58:52Z")
Just another reminder that there _is_ prayer in schools and there will always be prayer. State-sponsored prayer led by government employees is the issue that unnecessarily divides us. Polycarp’s explanations as to what constitutes expressing one’s faith and what equates to imposing it on others are eloquently stated. Perhaps he and a good cartoonist could produce a series of tracts for mass distribution? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zealous-atheists-are-just-as-bad-as-zealous-christians/135861/86 "2002-11-11T22:04:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\ ***kaylasdad** , I’m less concerned about that than about what a Pythagras is. \*\* Well, there’s already a **Pythagoras**. Benefit of the doubt sez he tried that first. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zealous-atheists-are-just-as-bad-as-zealous-christians/135861/87 "2002-11-11T22:09:41Z")
**AZCowboy** , No. Possibly in the specific example of schools - but even there, only to the extent that a specific religion is being pushed (which I don’t think is generally the case in the borderline cases being fought over). But in general, many of the “pushiest” religions are themselves minority religions, e.g. Mormons, or JWs. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zealous-atheists-are-just-as-bad-as-zealous-christians/135861/88 "2002-11-12T07:12:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > But in general, many of the “pushiest” religions are themselves minority religions, e.g. Mormons, or JWs. \*\* :rolleyes: How on earth can you make such a generalization? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zealous-atheists-are-just-as-bad-as-zealous-christians/135861/89 "2002-11-12T11:28:21Z")
now that you have suggested it AZ, its an interesting discussion. I’m not a religious person, but if someone choses to worship, that is their choice. Now, I don’t agree that their beliefs should be the law that non believers should follow. Also, I dont believe that the law should restrict them from worshipping. I fully support the separation of church and state. I think that public schools should be as free of religion as possible, but that no restirctions are placed on students having Prayer groups that dont interfere with study time. but, if a school recognises a prayer group and allows a teacher to participate, it should also fully support an Aethiest discussion group. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zealous-atheists-are-just-as-bad-as-zealous-christians/135861.md?page=4)