# Zenster: wholesale nonsense, bigotry, demagoguery etc **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 18, 2001, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zenster-wholesale-nonsense-bigotry-demagoguery-etc/88176 "2001-10-18T07:31:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![InkBlot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5e925/32.png) [@InkBlot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InkBlot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2001, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zenster-wholesale-nonsense-bigotry-demagoguery-etc/88176/101 "2001-10-22T15:35:12Z")
_grumbles_ Sorry about the double post folks. I was getting gateway timeouts and on first glance it hadn’t seemed to have gotten throguh. inkblot ---
**Author:** ![pennylane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pennylane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pennylane)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2001, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zenster-wholesale-nonsense-bigotry-demagoguery-etc/88176/102 "2001-10-22T15:38:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > **I think a human life is a human life whether it’s a soldier, a fireman, and accountant, or a Dr. I think those lives are equally precious, and that in most if not all cases they are precious indeed to the person who posesses them.** Oh, certainly, **Scylla** , I couldn’t agree with you more. I was simply trying to explain what I took to be **obfusciatrist** ’s point of view a little bit as I share it to some extent and he seems to be temporarily unavailable. On a side note, I would like to say that I commend the efforts the U.S. is making to preserve civilian life in Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2001, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zenster-wholesale-nonsense-bigotry-demagoguery-etc/88176/103 "2001-10-22T15:57:02Z")
**Scylla** remind me never to debate you. 😃 I must say you’ve done an excellent job here. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2001, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zenster-wholesale-nonsense-bigotry-demagoguery-etc/88176/104 "2001-10-22T15:58:59Z")
Pennylane: It’s a pleasure discussing this with you as well. In what other areas do you side with Obfusciatrist’s arguments and why? ---
**Author:** ![pennylane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pennylane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pennylane)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2001, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zenster-wholesale-nonsense-bigotry-demagoguery-etc/88176/105 "2001-10-22T16:35:41Z")
**Scylla** , I agree with **obfusciatrist** that all reasonable measures be taken to avoid civilian deaths. And that some of **Zenster** ’s propositions have not been worth debating. Keeping in mind that it is not Afghanistan which attacked America, but a group of terrorists whom the non-democratically-elected Afghani government refuses to hand over, we all agree that Afghani civilians are not to blame here. Thankfully, with the current level of technology available in the U.S. it is possible to specifically target military bases and Taliban headquarters without putting American soldiers in harm’s way (any more than they would naturally be during a war). I believe that in most circumstances the U.S. is capable of minimising civilian casualties without endangering American soldiers or jeopardising U.S. goals. So I can’t really imagine many realistic scenarios in which **Zenster** ’s more radical suggestions would be justified or inevitable. I also share **obfusciatrist** ’s idealistic view that the swift conclusion of a war may not necessarily justify the means by which it is achieved. Of course, all this is my personal point of view; I don’t think I’m capable of dictating what is ethical or justifiable in war and what is not. Perhaps those who feel capable of doing that should join the thread which **InkBlot** created for that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2001, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zenster-wholesale-nonsense-bigotry-demagoguery-etc/88176/106 "2001-10-22T17:16:19Z")
What you say makes sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zenster-wholesale-nonsense-bigotry-demagoguery-etc/88176/107 "2001-11-20T07:26:14Z")
Heh, I leave for a month of holiday and my first ever pit thread turns into sophistry-drenched great debate material. Go figure. I post again to remind everyone that the objective of this thread was not to wring hands over which brutal necessities are required by conflict, but to highlight the stupidity of posting emphatically about that which one does not know or understand. Opinion is no substitute for knowledge. I trust that **Zenster** and those who persist in making his same mistakes understood the point, eventually. Acknowledgement of one’s mistakes is a valuable part of the learning process; obtuse insistence on outrageously incorrect assertions is merely stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zenster-wholesale-nonsense-bigotry-demagoguery-etc/88176/108 "2001-11-20T14:13:27Z")
Oh yes. Thank God you showed up to save the day. Thank God you saw fit to bump this again. ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zenster-wholesale-nonsense-bigotry-demagoguery-etc/88176/109 "2001-11-22T07:17:13Z")
And thank god you replied Scylla, the volumes of apologetic and garbled side-stepping you dropped earlier just wasn’t quite enough to break the camel’s back… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zenster-wholesale-nonsense-bigotry-demagoguery-etc/88176.md?page=5)