# Zero Point Energy? Is this for real? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 24, 2002, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-point-energy-is-this-for-real/129454 "2002-09-24T13:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skippman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skippman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skippman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-point-energy-is-this-for-real/129454/1 "2002-09-24T13:53:09Z")
I’ve recently been reading on a few sites that we have discovered a new form of power that is being refered to as Zero Point Energy. Apparently according to the Heisenberg Uncertanty Priciple an atom can never come to a complete stop and will always be in some state of excite. According to the theory if we can tap this power, we could solve all the intersteller power problems. Is this as realistic as they make it sound? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-point-energy-is-this-for-real/129454/2 "2002-09-24T14:04:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skippman \* > \*\*I’ve recently been reading on a few sites that we have discovered a new form of power that is being refered to as Zero Point Energy. Apparently according to the Heisenberg Uncertanty Priciple an atom can never come to a complete stop and will always be in some state of excite. According to the theory if we can tap this power, we could solve all the intersteller power problems. Is this as realistic as they make it sound? \*\* Are they trying to sell you a “Heisenburg generator” or something like that? There are others more versed in this that I but most likely its a “free energy” scam. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-point-energy-is-this-for-real/129454/3 "2002-09-24T14:11:37Z")
how about some links? ---
**Author:** ![Skippman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skippman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skippman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-point-energy-is-this-for-real/129454/4 "2002-09-24T14:18:06Z")
[www.zpower.net/zpe.htm](http://www.zpower.net/zpe.htm) [xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9901011](http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9901011) [www.calphysics.org/zpe.html](http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html) It seems to have a lot of legit backing. No, they’re not trying to sell anything actually. I’m just trying to figure out if this is pseudoscience or hard fact. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-point-energy-is-this-for-real/129454/5 "2002-09-24T15:26:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skippman \* > \*\*[www.zpower.net/zpe.htm](http://www.zpower.net/zpe.htm) > > [snippity] > > It seems to have a lot of legit backing. No, they’re not trying to sell anything actually. I’m just trying to figure out if this is pseudoscience or hard fact. \*\* IANA Physicist, so I’ll let someone more versed in that area explain why it’s impractical to get at the zero-point energy. However, I just wanted to point out that the above site is quite definitely trying to sell something. Check out this page: [http://www.zpower.net/partnership.htm](http://www.zpower.net/partnership.htm) Essentially, they’re trying to convince naive business owners to enter into an unsecured “partnership” based on the promise of future results. This is almost certainly a dressed-up version of the old prepetual motion scam. The other two sites are scientifically legitimate, but note that they both say that ZPE is inaccessible even on theoretical terms - the Casimir force couldn’t generate energy unless it were asymmetrical, and it is not. ---
**Author:** ![FriendRob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecc23a/32.png) [@FriendRob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriendRob)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-point-energy-is-this-for-real/129454/6 "2002-09-24T15:38:11Z")
The first link is a bit flaky: ZPE exists, but it is not a infinite source of energy “out there” just waiting to be tapped. The 3rd site is right, tho: > [@](#): > > A thought experiment published by physicist Robert Forward in 1984 demonstrated how the Casimir force could in principle be used to extract energy from the quantum vacuum (Phys. Rev. B, 30, 1700, 1984). Theoretical studies in the early 1990s (Phys. Rev. E, 48, 1562, 1993) verified that this was not contradictory to the laws of thermodynamics (since the zero-point energy is different from a thermal reservoir of heat). Unfortunately the Forward process cannot be cycled to yield a continuous extraction of energy. A Casimir engine would be one whose cylinders could only fire once, after which the engine become useless. You can use it, but only once. Then you would need an equal amount of energy to reset your engine. Bottom line: it’s real science, but some of the people talking about it are flakes. ---
**Author:** ![JS\_Princeton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JS\_Princeton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JS_Princeton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-point-energy-is-this-for-real/129454/7 "2002-09-24T19:30:25Z")
It would be very hard from a thermodynamic standpoint to extract any of the ZPF. This is because you need a sink and your ZPF is it. The casimir idea works because you can actually get a negative pressure out of the vacuum using it which gives you a convenient sink below the zero point. There may yet be some zany physics out there that allows us to “tap” into the ZPF, but nothing’s been found to my knowledge.