# Zero to 100: Mid-Range Sports Car vs. 747 **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172 "2015-07-14T21:58:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/21 "2015-07-15T23:53:45Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > Tell that to Ferrari and Car and Driver. The Camaro is in no way my cup of tea, but it posted a 2:50.9 at Virginia International Raceway to the Ferrari F12’s 2:50.8. It was beaten by the Viper, the GTR, Porsche 918 and the Ferrari. The Camaro beat the Corvette, 911 Turbo, R8, Jag XKR-S and quite a few other worthy competitors. So, although it pains me to say it, it sure quacks like a sports car… Some could argue that the F12 isn’t really a sports car either, but a grand tourer. Ferrari’s used in sport would be their 458/488 mid engined offerings. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/22 "2015-07-15T23:57:03Z")
> [@zombywoof](#): > > I’m just thankful least the OP didn’t specify a Mustang, or surely by now we’d have someone insisting it’s neither a sports car nor a muscle car but a “pony car”. [My Little Pony Mustang.](https://derpicdn.net/img/2013/2/17/246509/full.jpeg) And it needs a [logo.](http://img03.deviantart.net/d5e4/i/2011/290/b/a/quick_little_pony_by_k_a_t_w_a_l_k-d4ccke4.png) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/23 "2015-07-16T01:18:40Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I’ll spoil this … not a single car made 100 foot altitude … planes win easily. It was nice that last video had English sub-titles, even though the video was in English … BTW - I know the driver of the last video… And yes - A muscle car is NOT the same as a sports car, Traditionally the Camaro would have been a muscle car - Although nowsadays, it’s pretty much a distinction without a difference ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/24 "2015-07-16T01:27:37Z")
Why would Chevrolet make two kinds of the same car? Every different model a company makes is intended to be for a different market segment, or else they’d be the same model. It’s quite clear that the Corvette niche is closer to what people call a “sports car” than a Camaro. I heard there was bitching from some Corvette fanatics when they decided they were going to put a compass as a navigational aid in Corvettes, because the purists thought there was no point for such a thing on a car intended to be used on race tracks. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/25 "2015-07-16T01:30:07Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [My Little Pony Mustang.](https://derpicdn.net/img/2013/2/17/246509/full.jpeg) > > And it needs a [logo.](http://img03.deviantart.net/d5e4/i/2011/290/b/a/quick_little_pony_by_k_a_t_w_a_l_k-d4ccke4.png) > > 😃 Golf clap. The logo is perfect. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/26 "2015-07-16T01:38:41Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Golf clap. The logo is perfect. Just to be clear, I did not make the logo. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/27 "2015-07-16T02:17:53Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Sorry, **Yog** , **RNATB** is correct. A Camaro is a muscle car. If we are being pedantic, it is a pony car. A muscle car is (was) an intermediate family-type car (i.e., Tempest) with a big engine. The Mustang was the original pony car and the Camaro/Firebird was GM’s answer to that. But you are correct that neither are sports cars ETA: None of these terms denotes that one is better or even has superior performance to another, but like sedan, landau, coupe, etc. had meanings relative to how they looked or were built. The meanings have since been lost on most people. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/28 "2015-07-16T02:38:36Z")
An MGB is a roadster … quick off the line but dog food at the quarter mile mark. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/29 "2015-07-16T02:50:38Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Muscle car ≠ Sports car. So–the nearest I’ve come to owning a sports car is an Audi S4, which I don’t think IS a sports car. What exactly do you call a Chevy that will beat a 911 Turbo around what looks like a relatively technical track? ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/30 "2015-07-16T02:57:35Z")
If there is are reasonable number of the cars that are tracked competitively then it is a sports car. This definition has some amusing results. But a substantial number of Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porches (especially Porsches) and even such beasts as the Mercedes SLS, are sport cars by such a definition. If there is a regular class that Camaros compete in, they are sports cars. As much as that might offend one’s sensibilities. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/31 "2015-07-16T02:57:45Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > An MGB is a roadster … quick off the line but dog food at the quarter mile mark. That’s not the definition of roadster - Roadster = Convertible = Spyder / Spyder A roadster can be both a muscle car and a sports car ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/32 "2015-07-16T02:59:40Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > If there is are reasonable number of the cars that are tracked competitively then it is a sports car. > > This definition has some amusing results. But a substantial number of Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porches (especially Porsches) and even such beasts as the Mercedes SLS, are sport cars by such a definition. If there is a regular class that Camaros compete in, they are sports cars. As much as that might offend one’s sensibilities. By that definition a HQ Holden is a Sportscar - which also cannot be correct … [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/tCMj_Adpehs/maxresdefault.jpg "HQ Holden Kingswood Race Car Start Up After 4 Years of Storage") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCMj_Adpehs) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/33 "2015-07-16T03:13:56Z")
On topic… I think the jet might be at a disadvantage because of the lower thrust from a standing start. It takes a while for the acceleration to build. I’ve flown a Glasair III (a long time ago), and I seem to recall it had some pretty good acceleration. The specs say it has a takeoff distance of 700 ft, with a rotation speed of about 90 mph. So, 0-90 in 700ft. In comparison, a 430 HP Camaro will hit about 85 mph in the 1/8 mile (660 ft). The comparison seems reasonable, since a Glasair III has a 300 HP engine and weighs about 2200 lbs empty. So the power to weight ratio is similar. > [@OldOlds](#): > > If we are being pedantic, it is a pony car. > > A muscle car is (was) an intermediate family-type car (i.e., Tempest) with a big engine. > > The Mustang was the original pony car and the Camaro/Firebird was GM’s answer to that. > > But you are correct that neither are sports cars > > ETA: None of these terms denotes that one is better or even has superior performance to another, but like sedan, landau, coupe, etc. had meanings relative to how they looked or were built. The meanings have since been lost on most people. ‘Pony Car’ is just a marketing term. A sports car is a car you use for sporting purposes as opposed to just transportation. There are many different types of sports car. A WRX is a rally car, but does that not make it a sports car? If a muscle car gives you a thrill when you accelerate down the road, how is that not a sports car? But even if you want to define a sports car as one that is designed to race on a track, the Camaro still qualifies. At least in Z/28 trim. Likewise, the base model Mustang may not quite live up to the ‘sports car’ name, but a Boss 302 sure does. Here’s a video of a 2014 Camaro Z-28 going around the Nurburgring in 7:37.47. This car comes from the factory with track-tuned suspension, racing brakes, a 505 HP engine, and stripped of everything that adds unnecessary weight. it has one real purpose - to go really fast on a track, including in the corners. That’s the very definition of sports car. By the numbers, it went around the 'ring faster than a Porsche 911 Carerra S and a Lamborghini Murcielago LP640. So how exactly does it not qualify as a sports car? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/34 "2015-07-16T03:50:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > On topic… I think the jet might be at a disadvantage because of the lower thrust from a standing start. It takes a while for the acceleration to build. > > I’ve flown a Glasair III (a long time ago), and I seem to recall it had some pretty good acceleration. The specs say it has a takeoff distance of 700 ft, with a rotation speed of about 90 mph. So, 0-90 in 700ft. In comparison, a 430 HP Camaro will hit about 85 mph in the 1/8 mile (660 ft). The comparison seems reasonable, since a Glasair III has a 300 HP engine and weighs about 2200 lbs empty. So the power to weight ratio is similar. > > ‘Pony Car’ is just a marketing term. A sports car is a car you use for sporting purposes as opposed to just transportation. There are many different types of sports car. A WRX is a rally car, but does that not make it a sports car? If a muscle car gives you a thrill when you accelerate down the road, how is that not a sports car? > > But even if you want to define a sports car as one that is designed to race on a track, the Camaro still qualifies. At least in Z/28 trim. Likewise, the base model Mustang may not quite live up to the ‘sports car’ name, but a Boss 302 sure does. > > Here’s a video of a 2014 Camaro Z-28 going around the Nurburgring in 7:37.47. This car comes from the factory with track-tuned suspension, racing brakes, a 505 HP engine, and stripped of everything that adds unnecessary weight. it has one real purpose - to go really fast on a track, including in the corners. That’s the very definition of sports car. > > By the numbers, it went around the 'ring faster than a Porsche 911 Carerra S and a Lamborghini Murcielago LP640. So how exactly does it not qualify as a sports car? You’ve got to go back to when the term was “invented” for the difference between a muscle car and a sports car. In the 60s a “Muscle Car” was one where straightline speed / acceleration was the priority, with handling being less important. For a sports car - it was cornering ability, braking and handling that was the priority. Naturally there is some intersection between the two. As cars have improved - the distinction between the two has been reduced. But if you were pressed - I would still put something like a HSV Commodore into a Muscle Car category rather than a sports car - even if it does sports car things as well as a car like an M3 ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/35 "2015-07-16T03:55:26Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > So–the nearest I’ve come to owning a sports car is an Audi S4, which I don’t think IS a sports car. What exactly do you call a Chevy that will beat a 911 Turbo around what looks like a relatively technical track? The Camaro in question was a Z/28 which is not really indicative of what most Camaros can do. The Z/28 is a limited edition, Corvette-powered Camaro sold specifically for track racing. So, a special souped-up super Camaro beat a standard 911 Turbo. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > ‘Pony Car’ is just a marketing term. A sports car is a car you use for sporting purposes as opposed to just transportation. Your definitions are not what most people use. Traditionally, a pony car is an affordable mid performance car (e.g. Mustang) and a sports car is a small, lightweight and nimble car, usually a 2 -seater. But it’s not really about speed. The Honda S2000, Mazda Miata, Porsche Boxster, and BMW Z3 are textbook examples of sports cars although none of them are very fast. The Porsche 911 is a sports car. The Camaro is a little bulky and not really light and nimble enough to be a sports car. It fits better in the pony car category. Making it faster than the 911 doesn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/36 "2015-07-16T04:39:28Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > The Camaro in question was a Z/28 which is not really indicative of what most Camaros can do. The Z/28 is a limited edition, Corvette-powered Camaro sold specifically for track racing. So, a special souped-up super Camaro beat a standard 911 Turbo. > > Your definitions are not what most people use. Traditionally, a pony car is an affordable mid performance car (e.g. Mustang) and a sports car is a small, lightweight and nimble car, usually a 2 -seater. But it’s not really about speed. The Honda S2000, Mazda Miata, Porsche Boxster, and BMW Z3 are textbook examples of sports cars although none of them are very fast. The Porsche 911 is a sports car. The Camaro is a little bulky and not really light and nimble enough to be a sports car. It fits better in the pony car category. Making it faster than the 911 doesn’t change that. Where it gets interesting is for something like the GTR - yay or nay to sportscar? Wickedly fast two seater, corners like a bastard but hardly small or nimble… ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/37 "2015-07-16T12:31:51Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > On topic… I think the jet might be at a disadvantage because of the lower thrust from a standing start. It takes a while for the acceleration to build. > > I’ve flown a Glasair III (a long time ago), and I seem to recall it had some pretty good acceleration. The specs say it has a takeoff distance of 700 ft, with a rotation speed of about 90 mph. So, 0-90 in 700ft. In comparison, a 430 HP Camaro will hit about 85 mph in the 1/8 mile (660 ft). The comparison seems reasonable, since a Glasair III has a 300 HP engine and weighs about 2200 lbs empty. So the power to weight ratio is similar. > > ‘Pony Car’ is just a marketing term. A sports car is a car you use for sporting purposes as opposed to just transportation. There are many different types of sports car. A WRX is a rally car, but does that not make it a sports car? If a muscle car gives you a thrill when you accelerate down the road, how is that not a sports car? > > But even if you want to define a sports car as one that is designed to race on a track, the Camaro still qualifies. At least in Z/28 trim. Likewise, the base model Mustang may not quite live up to the ‘sports car’ name, but a Boss 302 sure does. > > Here’s a video of a 2014 Camaro Z-28 going around the Nurburgring in 7:37.47. This car comes from the factory with track-tuned suspension, racing brakes, a 505 HP engine, and stripped of everything that adds unnecessary weight. it has one real purpose - to go really fast on a track, including in the corners. That’s the very definition of sports car. > > By the numbers, it went around the 'ring faster than a Porsche 911 Carerra S and a Lamborghini Murcielago LP640. So how exactly does it not qualify as a sports car? These terms are not used as descriptors, but rather as types- as such, the fact that a particular model crosses over is irrelevant. I admitted it was pedantic, especially today, but the fact remains that traditionally these were market segments which had specific meanings. Pony cars, for instance, were not nearly as fast or as large as most muscle cars. They were intended to seem sporty and be affordable, and back in the day weren’t nearly as fast as a muscle car. Today the lines are so blurred as to be meaningless- a 2015 V6 camry probably outperforms 99.9% of all 1968 models regardless of cost, whether at the drag strip or on a track. But at one time they were distinct segments, and an MG did not compete (for sales) directly against the Mustang, which did not compete directly against the Pontiac GTO. Trucks and sedans aren’t the same thing, despite the existence of the Subaru Baja. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/38 "2015-07-16T12:53:26Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > … Here’s a video of a 2014 Camaro Z-28 going around the Nurburgring in 7:37.47. This car comes from the factory with track-tuned suspension, racing brakes, a 505 HP engine, and stripped of everything that adds unnecessary weight. it has one real purpose - to go really fast on a track, including in the corners. That’s the very definition of sports car. … That’s actually the very definition of a missing link to a video. Can we haz pleaz? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/39 "2015-07-16T12:56:36Z")
Whoah. I fucked up this thread good. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172/40 "2015-07-16T12:58:47Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > If we are being pedantic, it is a pony car. LOL, I almost posted “it’s a pony car”, but I figured that for a one off jibe at **YogSoth** that would be a little too esoteric, so I went with muscle car. Once again I underestimated the Dope’s propensity to veer off topic and dive into the minutiae. 😛 > [@Fubaya](#): > > Traditionally, a pony car is an affordable mid performance car (e.g. Mustang) and a sports car is a small, lightweight and nimble car, usually a 2 -seater. But it’s not really about speed. The Honda S2000, Mazda Miata, Porsche Boxster, and BMW Z3 are textbook examples of sports cars although none of them are very fast. The Porsche 911 is a sports car. The Camaro is a little bulky and not really light and nimble enough to be a sports car. It fits better in the pony car category. Making it faster than the 911 doesn’t change that. Ding ding ding! Winner! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zero-to-100-mid-range-sports-car-vs-747/725172.md?page=3)