# Zev\_steinhardt, Doc Cathode, Angua, I Hate To Break It To You: You're Christian **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2005, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737 "2005-03-03T10:06:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/81 "2005-03-03T18:36:06Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > **Finn Again** and the rest of you, please, don’t encourage him. My apologies **Siege** , I did not mean to ruin your thread and I am sincerely sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/82 "2005-03-03T18:37:33Z")
Here’s how it works, **Humpy**. If you call me a deviant and compare me to people who like to have sex with animals, I’m gonna consider you an asshole. It’s not really all that hard a concept to grasp. Surely anyone who’s done the grueling investigative work necessary to become an atheist ( :rolleyes: ) can connect the dots on that particular enigma. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/83 "2005-03-03T19:02:38Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Here’s how it works, **Humpy**. If you call me a deviant and compare me to people who like to have sex with animals, I’m gonna consider you an asshole. It’s not really all that hard a concept to grasp. Surely anyone who’s done the grueling investigative work necessary to become an atheist ( :rolleyes: ) can connect the dots on that particular enigma. Agnostic, not athiest. And knock yourself out, amigo. I have realized that our exchange is coming perilously close to hijacking this thread. If you wish to continue the exchange offline or in another thread, let me know, but I’m not going to post any more in this one. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/84 "2005-03-03T19:03:18Z")
Having been quoted by **Siege** in support of her position, I must point out that I said a bit more; that the offending use of "Christian had some support in usage, to wit: from Merriam-Webster online “Christian, _adj_: commendably decent or generous \ **Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/85 "2005-03-03T19:10:53Z") Interesting how **CLothahump** always scurries away anytime anyone tries to confront him about his raging homophobia. Guess we can tack on “cowardly” to his standard “asshole” designation. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/86 "2005-03-03T19:37:45Z")
If **rwjefferson** is interested in actually pursuing his train of thought to a coherent and respectful position (as opposed to simply asserting a stance from a position of (unjustified) superiority and condescension), he should probably take the time to read Karl Rahner’s works on “unconscious Christianity” and the “anonymous Christian.” Rahner makes the strong case _to the Christian community_ that we have no business judging others. We need to recognize when others follow God in their way, they are being led by God to Him (Her, Whoever), and that they are fullfilling the basic commands that we have been given. However, this message is **only** directed **to** Christians as a brake on our tendency to try to judge others according to our Scriptures or to believe ourselves, in some way, superior to those who do not follow our path. It is not a message that we are to bring to the world, trying to arrogantly force others to “admit” that they are “really” one of us if they were only not too shy to admit it or too foolish or deluded to recognize it. Rahner’s concept of the “unconscious Christian” is exactly intended to avoid the silliness that **rwjefferson** is spouting. Rahner does not claim that all good people are “really” Christians; he points out that _Christians_ need to recognize the goodness in those who do not profess Christian beliefs. (And, just to avoid being entwined in the **Czarcasm** / **Liberal** hijack, note that just as Rahner does _not_ permit Christians to call people of other faiths Christian, he also does _not_ permit Christians to call people of no faith Christian. The use of the word “Christian” is an _internal discussion_ of _attitudes by Christians_ toward others, not an attempt to place labels or assign beliefs to other persons when the discussion includes those who are not Christian.) ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/87 "2005-03-03T19:39:20Z")
All this talk about gardens. Does no one care for the hayfever sufferers? Some faiths have a rule of their faith that all people are members. Islam in particular, hense noone converts to Islam, they merely revert. It is tilting at windmills to persuade someone not to believe you are part of their faith. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/88 "2005-03-03T19:56:42Z")
I think it’s just that **rwjefferson** is an incoherant poster. He makes up his own definitions for words, uses random capitalization, and tries to fit everyone into his general religious worldview, which seems to be a kind of liberal universalism. I wouldn’t let his posts bother you. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/89 "2005-03-03T20:32:14Z")
**Seige** , Sorry to have hijacked your thread. ## Tris “These things that are pleasin’ you can hurt you somehow.” ~ Don Henley & Glenn Frey ~ ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/90 "2005-03-03T20:34:07Z")
Buddhism is Best. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/91 "2005-03-03T21:47:50Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No, schmuck, pantheists believe in many Gods. Are you honestly going to argue that the ancient Greeks thought that Universe was God? Just to interrupt this little pissing match hijack with a bit of ignorance-fighting: [Pantheist:](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pantheist) one who equates the divine with the universe. (Secondarily, one who follows all gods.) [Polytheist:](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=polytheist) one who follows many gods. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/92 "2005-03-03T21:49:50Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Christ is the garden. Gardens need fertilizer. Manure is fertilizer. > > Therefore Christ is full of shit. Chauncey? ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/93 "2005-03-03T22:05:29Z")
Of course if Eve was Jewish, then everyone is Jewish whether they like it or not. (No not our **Eve** silly, I’m talking about Adam’s better half) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/94 "2005-03-03T22:09:48Z")
> [@Lilairen](#): > > Just to interrupt this little pissing match hijack with a bit of ignorance-fighting: > > [Pantheist:](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pantheist) one who equates the divine with the universe. (Secondarily, one who follows all gods.) > > [Polytheist:](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=polytheist) one who follows many gods. Thanks for the attempt, but my ignorance was already cleared up in the thread that **Lib** just started about leaving the Pit. You can get an honorable mention though if you’d like. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/95 "2005-03-03T23:06:07Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > (And, just to avoid being entwined in the **Czarcasm** / **Liberal** hijack, note that just as Rahner does _not_ permit Christians to call people of other faiths Christian, he also does _not_ permit Christians to call people of no faith Christian. **The use of the word “Christian” is an _internal discussion_ of _attitudes by Christians_ toward others, not an attempt to place labels or assign beliefs to other persons when the discussion includes those who are not Christian.)** Bolding mine. Would that all professed Christians felt that way. Thanks for letting me know that some do, **tomndebb**. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/96 "2005-03-03T23:24:15Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > Of course if Eve was Jewish, then everyone is Jewish whether they like it or not She wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/97 "2005-03-03T23:25:42Z")
How to put this…could **rwjefferson** be finding himself so frequently on the wrong end of the rhetorical boot-to-arse because he’s perhaps a few cards shy of a full deck? There are certainly eccentrics aplenty who could use a good thrashing, but **rw** tends to elicit in me more feelings of compassion than revulsion. I may be wrong about this, but I’ve taken seriously the possibility that he’s, well, quite genuinely a little nuts. ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/98 "2005-03-03T23:25:55Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Even though you can prove it for yourself, if you are willing to do the work? I did. That’s how I found out it was all a lie. If you’re willing to do it, let me know; I’ll post you a simple question that it took me years just to get to the point where I had learned enough to ask it. Big headstart for you. > > And BTW, you don’t know from assholes. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have called me one. No, he’s right; I’ve seen enough of your other posts (including the one he linked to). You’re an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/99 "2005-03-04T00:00:02Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > … calling a person who has chosen not to be a Christian a “Christian” can be offensive… **"Christian"and “good person” are NOT synonyms!** I agree that "Christian"and “good person” are not synonyms, but let’s not overreact. If a muslim friend of mine tells me that, because he thinks my behavior and character exemplify how a muslim should live that I am “a muslim at heart”, I won’t agree, but I don’t see why I should be offended. Similarly if people who told me I was “a budhist at heart”, “a wiccan at heart”, etc. Now, to tell the truth, if a satanist told me that because of my behavior he thought I was “a satanist at heart”, it would bother me. So, does that mean that people who are offended at being called Christians find Christianity as offensive as I find satanism? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/100 "2005-03-04T00:45:50Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > . > > Now, to tell the truth, if a satanist told me that because of my behavior he thought I was “a satanist at heart”, it would bother me. So, does that mean that people who are offended at being called Christians find Christianity as offensive as I find satanism? In all honesty some people do. Those of us who reject religion as superstition feel more or less the same about all superstitions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737.md?page=6)