# Zev\_steinhardt, Doc Cathode, Angua, I Hate To Break It To You: You're Christian **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2005, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737 "2005-03-03T10:06:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/121 "2005-03-04T07:57:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I know some very good people who do not worship what Christians call “God”. It’s not that they worship him under another name-they do not worship him _at all_. > Period. > How would some of the devout Christians here feel if I insisted that, because they have shown anger and/or selfishness and/or jealousy and/or doubt they, in their own way, worship Satan. now, they may call him Loki, Coyote, Hades, Ctuthlu, Weakness, or Human Emotion, but in reality they are, in their own way, followers of Satan and he will welcome them as true believers after they die. > > I do not follow your god under _any_ name, and I do not like it when people put me under their umbrella of “all-inclusiveness”. The Spirit cannot not put, it can only carry. Your Words do not describe my Understanding. You do not know my god. You do not know my Spirit. Your words leave me to wonder what you do or do not know of the existence of spirit. Please reveal only what You Wish. I Am In the Spirit ItS r~ ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/122 "2005-03-04T08:02:40Z")
**rwjefferson** Your Words maKe me WOnder aT yoUr USE of Capitals. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/123 "2005-03-04T08:20:58Z")
**rw** , could you say that in English, please? Or maybe respond to… something? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/124 "2005-03-04T11:11:10Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > And knock yourself out, amigo. I have realized that our exchange is coming perilously close to hijacking this thread. If you wish to continue the exchange offline or in another thread, let me know, but I’m not going to post any more in this one. I really wish you’d done that and I’d appreciate it if you’d do it now. Since my views on homosexuality are a matter of public record around here, I won’t comment on my opinion of you. I will say that I am ashamed that I ended one hijack started by a man who used to be a close friend only to see this thread taken over by a worse one. I agree that **rwjefferson** probably isn’t the brightest poster we’ve seen here and I’m sure his intentions are good. I’m just getting tired of saying, “Please don’t say that. It’s not true.” For those who apologize, your apologies are accepted and I apologize if I was too snark. As for you, **DocCathode** , if I weren’t a gentile and spoken for, well, I believe the traditional phrase around here is, “How are _you_ doing?!” 😉 **Angua** , I also wanted to thank you. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/125 "2005-03-04T11:14:23Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > **Angua** , I also wanted to thank you. No problem **Siege** – I’m always happy to help a friend, and clear up misconceptions. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/126 "2005-03-04T14:21:56Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > I will say that I am ashamed that I ended one hijack started by a man who used to be a close friend … Seriously, it seems it doesn’t take much to lose your friendship. It would seem to me that **Lib** responded directly to the intent of your OP which was to trash **rwjefferson** with the weight of this community. Because **rw** held beliefs contrary to yours? I see your intent, **Lib** clearly saw it and as a good friend, he was not afraid to confront you . I find your objective in the OP counter- productive to your _general tolerance for other’s beliefs_. And why is this neccessary? > [@](#): > > I agree that **rwjefferson** probably isn’t the brightest poster we’ve seen here… Haven’t you trashed him enough already? To **rwjefferson’s** credit, he has not bothered to support his belief on who or who isn’t a christian. To do so would obviously upset some people around here. But I understand where he is coming from. Personally, I’ve come to learn that accepting Jesus is accepting His word as exemplified by the Good Samaritan. I never read anywhere if he accepted Christ and got baptized. Just like millions of others who have never heard of Christ. I think that view has primarily been taught to me by your good friend **Polycarp**. So **Seige** , please take my words from a fellow believer in universal salvation as intended to help you. ---
**Author:** ![InkBlot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5e925/32.png) [@InkBlot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InkBlot)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/127 "2005-03-04T14:46:00Z")
Erm… I’d planned to participate in this more. It looked like a interesting thread. I posted once (waaaaay back, on page one. go on, I’ll wait), then got sucked into work such that I didn’t even get to look at the boards again that day. Yikes. Well, not that anyone cares anymore by this point, but **Finn Again** carried my basic point pretty well. A little farther, actually. I now understand what **Liberal** was _trying_ to say, but at the time I interpreted it differently. In my case, too much use of the word _belief_ and not _religion_. They way everyone, including Liberal, kept describing beliefs, I felt he was including Atheism within that. **Liberal** , this, I believe, is an example of getting too semantic for your own good again. **Jinwicked** , I think you’re a first rate cartoonist. And a snazzy dresser. Well, at least a certain pre-historic…erm…[hippo](http://www.angellis.net/Web/DFG-ung/Desmostylus.htm) didn’t show up to bash on Liberal. Right. You may ignore me again, if you hadn’t already. 🙂 InkBlot :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/128 "2005-03-04T16:42:45Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > . . . How do I spend the rest of my life? I should know from the goy lifestyle? Does this mean I should throw out that jar of gefilte fish? . . . I’m afraid so. But c’mon over here, we have some lovely \*lutefiske \* for you. And jello salad. Boy howdy, have we got jello salad. . . ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/129 "2005-03-04T17:54:43Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > No, I don’t. But what you can tack on is a great big > > Kiss My Ass > > from me. I do not have raging homophobia. I am simply outspoken in my views and for that, I am called a homophobic asshole. Hey, I’m simply outspoken on my view that anyone who calls me a deviant and compares me to child rapists is an asshole! Where do you get off questioning my opinions? See, here’s how it works. When you insult an entire group of people based on a shared immutable characteristic, that’s what know as “being a bigot.” Most people with actual morals consider bigots to be “assholes.” When the group of people you’re slandering happens to be homosexuals, that’s what’s known as “being homophobic.” When someone calls you on this, and you react with 7-point type, that’s what’s known as “getting angry,” or “raging.” Hence, because of your posts, you are a raging, biggotted asshole. > [@](#): > > I try to show some simple courtesy to the OP and I am called a coward. This is more subjective, but its my personal opinion that most bigotry is ultimatly rooted in fear. Fear of change, fear of difference, fear of strangers, ultimatly, fear of yourself. Basically, I think you’re a coward _because_ you’re a bigot. But, at least on this score, I recognize that I’m using some idiosyncratic definitions that are not shared or recognized by everyone. Guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on you being a coward. > [@](#): > > You know, this bears repeating: > > Kiss My Ass Well, gee, I would, but wouldn’t that be kinda… deviant? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/130 "2005-03-04T19:47:03Z")
> [@Genghis Bob](#): > > I’m afraid so. But c’mon over here, we have some lovely \*lutefiske \* for you. I’ve always wanted to try that. People hear it’s fish buried in lime and just assume it’s bad. ---
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/131 "2005-03-04T19:48:16Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Except… > > There is no truth in any religion. All religions from the dawn of time to the present are nothing but lies; they are an elaborate con game perpetrated by one group of people on another and nothing more. > > THAT is why I am offended when people call me a Christian. I have not been a Christian since my early teens, when I found out the truth about religions. I don’t like being lied to, and I really don’t like it when others keep trying to force that lie down my throat. Those pesky pharisites strike again!!! I Am so sorry they got to you. And so deeply, too. I can only offer you my support and understanding. Peace ItS r~ ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/132 "2005-03-04T20:14:17Z")
> [@leander](#): > > You’re quite a nasty piece of work, aren’t you? > > And I hate to break it to you, but homosexuality has been “accepted” by most _civilized_ societies for some time now. So it is no longer considered “deviant” (much like interracial marriages). > > “Civilized”, of course, is the key word here…one which may be foreign to you. No, I am not “a nasty piece of work”. I’m actually quite a nice person. However, I hold different views from others and that apparently entitles them to call me an asshole. On the other hand, I am apparently supposed to just sit still and let them. Sorry, that’s not in my foreseeable future. As far as other societies go, I’ve lived in several of them. None of them condoned homosexuality. Frankly, I don’t care if they do or not. The only society I really care about is here in the USA, because this is where I live. If I were to move to another country and take up citizenship there, then I would care about that society. And why would you make the claim that “civilized” is foreign to me? Oh, yeah, I forgot. You disagree with me, so that entitles you to make snotty remarks to me. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/133 "2005-03-04T20:17:24Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I’m Christian? Oy gevalt, what a shock. I’m all fartootst. I find myself stunned and breathless, as if somebody had given me a big zetz right in the poopik. > \ > What’s a goy to do? Look, think of it this way. You can have as much bacon on your cheeseburger as you would like. You can also have a chicken club sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/134 "2005-03-04T20:23:03Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That exempts atheism altogether. (Not that atheists are forbidden from entering the garden, but merely that they do not pursue its entry.) I do not exempt atheists. Please be careful that you do not attribute your own interpretations as mine. ItS r~ ---
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/135 "2005-03-04T20:46:06Z")
> [@treis](#): > > J.C.- Suffering on this world is only temporary. Accept me as your savior and you will go to heaven and live there forever. Deny me and you will go to hell and spend eternity there. That is hearsay. J.C. is not here to speak for Himself or to refute the modern pharisees. r~ ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/136 "2005-03-04T20:51:37Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Oh, don’t bother. It’s been done. Clothahump isn’t just an asshole, he’s also really fucking stupid. I mean, seriously, look at what he believes in, and look him up from past threads. You think one logical argument is going to change that? Being an asshole exists apart and beyond having asshole views. Anyone can end up saddled with an idea that they later realize is wrong. But Clothahump? He’s got convictions. He’s committed. He likes being an asshole, and that’s why he comes up with any opportunity he can to do it. After all, when was this thread about gay issues in the first place? If they were just his views, he wouldn’t constantly bring them up at inappropriate times. (Hijacking threads is most certainly deviant behavior by the definition he quoted - it violates our standards.) Nope, it’s that tendency for assholes to want to show off their assholishness. **Excalibre** , you might try getting some facts correct before you spout shit like that last paragraph. My first entry into this thread was directly in line with the topic of the thread ([here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5905722&postcount=32) ). The hijacking of the thread began with me being called an asshole [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5905750&postcount=36) , which was questioned by **Anaamika** [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5905939&postcount=46) , continued [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5906010&postcount=50) , and then the truth pops up [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5906779&postcount=82) , where it is announced that I’m being called an asshole over something posted in a totally different and completely unrelated thread. I even commented about the fact that the thread was being hijacked [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5906870&postcount=83) . This entire mess came about because 1. I apparently posted an opinion in another thread that was unpopular, 2. Others had no comeback to it, so they resorted to ad hominem attacks against me, calling me a homophobic asshole, 3. My attempt at courtesy to the OP in which I offered to continue the discussion elsewhere was deemed to be cowardice and running away. And then, of course, you apparently felt you needed to evacuate your bowels without bothering to do a minimum of research on the threadline. > [@Excalibre](#): > > Then the crybaby shit over being called an asshole. Because it’s unfair for him to face the natural consequences of being one. He’s like people you see on talk shows. “Don’t you call me no thief! I mighta stolen her wallet, but I ain’t no thief! Don’t you be callin’ people names!” No. Totally and completely wrong. What pissed me off is people like you who have nothing better to respond with than ad hominem attacks. You don’t like what I said, so you call me an asshole. That was the basis for the Kiss My Ass response. If that’s the best you have to offer, amigo, it’s arrogant and it’s pretty damn lame. And kindly note that nowhere in any of these posts have I called someone an asshole because they disagree with me. Frankly, the more I think about it, the more apparent it becomes: if all you can do is call me an asshole in response to what I post, then what I’m posting is obviously correct. **Siege** , my apologies to you for the hijacking of your thread. You had a very valid topic and I’m sorry it got diverted by others into this dead end. I tried once before to exit this thread and I should have at that time. This time I will. I will not respond to any more “Clothahump is an asshole” messages posted here, so all of you that want to call me an asshole because you don’t like my point of view, kindly move over there and form a line to the right. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/137 "2005-03-04T20:58:24Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > No, I am not “a nasty piece of work”. I’m actually quite a nice person. However, I hold different views from others and that apparently entitles them to call me an asshole. On the other hand, I am apparently supposed to just sit still and let them. Sorry, that’s not in my foreseeable future. Yeah, and I’m in love with someone different than you, so that entitles you to call me “deviant.” And I’m supposed to just sit still and let you? Fuck that. Better yet, fuck you. You don’t get a free pass on insulting other people with out drawing insults in return. You don’t like people calling you an asshole? Stop acting like one. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/138 "2005-03-04T21:15:26Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > No, I am not “a nasty piece of work”. I’m actually quite a nice person. However, I hold different views from others and that apparently entitles them to call me an asshole. On the other hand, I am apparently supposed to just sit still and let them. Sorry, that’s not in my foreseeable future. Your comment about **Jin** makes you “a nasty piece of work”; your stance on homosexuality just makes you a bigot. > [@](#): > > As far as other societies go, I’ve lived in several of them. None of them condoned homosexuality. Frankly, I don’t care if they do or not. The only society I really care about is here in the USA, because this is where I live. If I were to move to another country and take up citizenship there, then I would care about that society. Are you seriously trying to say that here in the USA homosexuality is not considered acceptable by most members of society? It may not be your cup of tea (hell, it’s not mine), but that doesn’t make it unacceptable. > [@](#): > > And why would you make the claim that “civilized” is foreign to me? Oh, yeah, I forgot. You disagree with me, so that entitles you to make snotty remarks to me. This from the queen of snotty remarks? Boo-fucking-hoo… ---
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/139 "2005-03-04T21:22:35Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > The fact that rwjefferson is convinced “there’s something out there” I confess, I am convinced. I exist. I Am. I even catch a glimpse of your Spirit in your posts. The Force responsible for existence has many names, many manifestations. I prefer not to get hung up on Words or Cross. My wish is that we Pursue understanding in Peace. We can only hinder this quest when we impose our shared or personal Beliefs on others. I Am ItS r~ ---
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737/140 "2005-03-04T22:00:38Z")
[ > [@tomndebb](#): > > If **rwjefferson** is interested in actually pursuing his train of thought to a coherent and respectful position (as opposed to simply asserting a stance from a position of (unjustified) superiority and condescension) It is the religions zealots would impose their beliefs on us All. I would end this sacrilege. You consider that a position of unjustified superiority and condescension? What then do you call those that impose their beliefs on others? Justified? > [@](#): > > Rahner makes the strong case _to the Christian community_ that we have no business judging others. We need to recognize when others follow God in their way, they are being led by God to Him (Her, Whoever), and that they are fullfilling the basic commands that we have been given. No disagreement here. > [@](#): > > However, this message is **only** directed **to** Christians as a brake on our tendency to try to judge others according to our Scriptures or to believe ourselves, in some way, superior to those who do not follow our path. This does not apply to me. Why do you quote it as if it does? You may read my Words but your image is distorted beyond recognition. r~ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zev_steinhardt-doc-cathode-angua-i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-youre-christian/292737.md?page=8)