# Zhen'ka **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829 "2009-07-13T04:19:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/101 "2009-07-15T18:10:52Z")
I didn’t read it. But if I had I would have been overcome with a strong sense of meh! Then I’d forget it within days, if not hours. There is some advantages to having a bad memory. I stopped caring that much sometime in high school. Some people must have really liked high school, they don’t seem to have ever mentally left. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/102 "2009-07-15T18:16:35Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I don’t claim to be perfect In the context of the pileon, I thought [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11088891&#post11088891) was gratuitous nastiness. But I don’t know how Shodan took it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/103 "2009-07-15T18:22:15Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You’re the one throwing around the weak stuff. In your world if I clean up some trash and someone comes over to help we’ve suddenly got a coordinated clean up crew. Very good - you are getting the concept. You’ll make it into fourth grade yet! > [@](#): > > I’m sure it makes you feel all puffed up to stand up to the “bullies” and “cyberstalkers” even if you have to squint and twist to see them. What a hero. :rolleyes: When it is like this stuff? Nah - I like a challenge. Is this what got you to crown this bitch the King of Snark, **Lib**? Come on - not only does he have nothing, when challenged he just repeats himself. No imagination, no verve. It’s like that stupid snarkpit thing - it’s dull. At least **jayjay** put some effort into it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/104 "2009-07-15T18:26:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Very good - you are getting the concept. You’ll make it into fourth grade yet!When it is like this stuff? Nah - I like a challenge. > > Is this what got you to crown this bitch the King of Snark, **Lib**? Come on - not only does he have nothing, when challenged he just repeats himself. > > No imagination, no verve. It’s like that stupid snarkpit thing - it’s dull. At least **jayjay** put some effort into it. > > Regards, > Shodan Sorry to repeat myself - I thought you’d figure it out if I tried it a different way. But keep strutting around with the superior act. I’m sure someone out there is buying it. Like maybe your Mom is reading along. Enjoy my humble regards, Cloudy ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/105 "2009-07-15T18:27:16Z")
**Duke** meet strawman. No one here is “falling over” **Lib**. Whether or not he should have been banned in the past is not of interest. We are observing multiple posters interrupting threads that they have nothing else to do with in order to slap around **Lib** and for no other apparent reason. We are observing that those who either complains about that, or who vouches for **Lib** in any way, is insulted, accused being paid to lie for him, or, horror of horrors, being a _Lib-lover_. We are observing that a group of posters are congregating on another board to snigger together about how bad **Lib** is and what he’s said now and explicitly discussing what one of them should say to harass him, and egging each other on - “You should say that, see what Tom does!” “I’m going to go for!” “Do it!” “I can’t because I’ll get in trouble.” etc… (I will not link to another board but someone else did in my Fat-ass Pit thread.) And snarking about anyone who bitches about this behavior that has gone past immature and into ugly. These are basic observations and are pretty indisputable. They are not memes or things you have to squint to see. **xenophon41** mockingly stated “So the cool kids don’t like Lib…” but I’m going to take that at face value. I’m guessing that the Dope has an overrepresentation of those who were _not_ the “cool kids” back in the day. Most of us not only got over that but actually learned to embrace our lack of coolosity - oh say by third grade. These putzes never got over it. They are still cool kid wannabees huddled together making fun of someone less cool than they are. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/106 "2009-07-15T18:28:03Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Watch out! I think they are coordinated! Indeed! They can post here without tripping over themselves or spilling beer on their keyboards! As for the “why do you care about it” crowd…why does anybody care about anything on this board? Some of us would like to have a discussion about religion or libertarianism or Native American affairs without the same guy coming in repeatedly to torpedo it, time and again and again. Some of us don’t like to see one guy allowed to set the rules of a Great Debates thread in an OP while others aren’t. Some of us don’t like to be jerked around mid-argument by someone who someone who brings up a medical problem as a diversionary tactic. And, lastly, some of us just don’t like dealing with people who don’t seem particularly genuine. Yes, I know this last is subjective. But I’ve always been suspicious about claims of medical problems over the internet, _especially_ when those claims are so myriad and inconsistent. Yes, maybe **Liberal** is suffering from all of the maladies he’s claiming, and if that’s true I apologize unreservedly. But it’s been my experience that the more kinds of ailments someone claims on the internet, the more likely it is that something is not right. And the sickest people I’ve known were usually the least likely to talk about it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/107 "2009-07-15T18:32:25Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > In the context of the pileon, I thought [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11088891&#post11088891) was gratuitous nastiness. But I don’t know how Shodan took it. As a fairly light-hearted jab. This is the kind of thing the Pit is for. Come on - it was a pretty good line. I can never quite express it, but I think there is a line that shouldn’t be crossed. Not that I haven’t crossed it, but I was always sorry afterwards. There’s a difference between playing the dozens, and cyber-stalking, or bullying. I suppose it goes to that most nebulous of things, intent. Most of the insults are only semi-serious. Some are not. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/108 "2009-07-15T18:36:14Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Duke** meet strawman. > > No one here is “falling over” **Lib**. Whether or not he should have been banned in the past is not of interest. We are observing multiple posters interrupting threads that they have nothing else to do with in order to slap around **Lib** and for no other apparent reason. We are observing that those who either complains about that, or who vouches for **Lib** in any way, is insulted, accused being paid to lie for him, or, horror of horrors, being a _Lib-lover_. We are observing that a group of posters are congregating on another board to snigger together about how bad **Lib** is and what he’s said now and explicitly discussing what one of them should say to harass him, and egging each other on - “You should say that, see what Tom does!” “I’m going to go for!” “Do it!” “I can’t because I’ll get in trouble.” etc… (I will not link to another board but someone else did in my Fat-ass Pit thread.) And snarking about anyone who bitches about this behavior that has gone past immature and into ugly. > > These are basic observations and are pretty indisputable. They are not memes or things you have to squint to see. **DSeid** , what you’re essentially saying is that “since so many people complain about **Liberal** , _nobody_ can complain about **Liberal**.” What you’re also saying is that none of these people can form an independent thought about another poster. Let me tell you–I’ve been around here _longer than **Liberal** _. Longer than most of the other posters in this thread. Longer than snark communities. (Damn, I’m old.) I’ve never thought **Liberal** argued in a particularly fair way, and as a result I’ve never trusted him. ([Here’s an example from 2003.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=2995708&highlight=Duke#post2995708) Apparently I’ve been “running with the cool kids” for six years now.) I’m not arguing one bit that **Zhen’ka** was out of line. But I _am_ arguing that **Liberal** is hardly beyond reproach, and that any argument against him his hardly evidence of hive-mindery. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/109 "2009-07-15T19:00:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As a fairly light-hearted jab. This is the kind of thing the Pit is for. Come on - it was a pretty good line. > > I can never quite express it, but I think there is a line that shouldn’t be crossed. Not that I haven’t crossed it, but I was always sorry afterwards. > > There’s a difference between playing the dozens, and cyber-stalking, or bullying. I suppose it goes to that most nebulous of things, intent. Most of the insults are only semi-serious. Some are not. I agree with this. My comment earlier in the thread was actually one of those “I cannot pass this straight line up!” things than actually having any massive hate for **Shodan**. He and I very rarely agree, and he more often than not bugs the hell out of me, but there was no real anger or hatred in the “dick” post. I have a near-compulsion to respond to inadvertent straight lines with a joke, as a review of my posting history will probably (to the detriment of one’s opinion of the quality of my thought processes) tell you. I don’t LIKE **Shodan** , but I don’t hate the man, either. Now, there ARE posters on the right-wing side of things that I come close to hate for (names withheld), but then there are posters on the left-wing side of things that forcibly make my eyes roll with every post they publish (names also withheld). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/110 "2009-07-15T19:17:08Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I agree with this. My comment earlier in the thread was actually one of those “I cannot pass this straight line up!” things than actually having any massive hate for **Shodan**. He and I very rarely agree, and he more often than not bugs the hell out of me, but there was no real anger or hatred in the “dick” post. That’s the part I can never quite put my finger on. To me at least, the above was quite clear. It wasn’t genuinely malicious, and it didn’t come across as malicious. And I can’t tell why I can tell. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/111 "2009-07-15T19:37:24Z")
I think \*\*Duke \*\*has a point, actually. I don’t think I argued “in a fair way” in the past. Especially when it came to politics. I was closed-minded about any other point of view, and no one in that state of mind can argue fairly. Now, as to me having special rules about controlling threads or whatever, I don’t think that’s true. There’ve been plenty of thread-shitters in my Jesus threads. One (I think — I might be thinking of another thread, not sure) poster was warned about a personal insult or something, but on the whole, the participants themselves, like MrDibble, for example, have done the work of asking thread-shitters to please bow out. Anyway, that’s all I have to say about that. (It is true, though, Duke, that some posters do gather at the snark board(s) and sort of “brainstorm” how to come back to Dope and fuck with various posters (not just me — in fact, until lately stuff about me practically died out) and the mods and admins. It’s a simple fact, which you could learn for yourself if you Google the username of the King of Snark, along with the term “snark”.) ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/112 "2009-07-15T19:38:38Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > I can say for certain that I am not a snarker, but I posted this a while back to (yet another) pit thread about **Liberal** : > > Honestly, I don’t get it. All you people who are falling over him in this thread and others, did you feel the same way when he told us “fuck you, I don’t need you anymore” and “I don’t need to hang around on this board with idiots like you”? Why do you feel a need to persistently call him into question? Have you nothing better to do with your life? Does the fact that you perceive him as a fraud and a jerk mandate that you mention this whenever and whereever he shows up? Wouldn’t it be better to simply ignore him, unless he shows up in a thread in which you are already participating, at which time, if he says something dubious, you can make a point about it? No one is falling all over **Liberal** in this thread; the point of the OP is that there is no need to run around crapping on people who make statements about him that aren’t excoriatingly negative. Not surprisingly, the anti-Lib crowd are the ones who turned the thread into a rehash of all the same allegations about him. \ ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/113 "2009-07-15T20:26:08Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > … But I _am_ arguing that **Liberal** is hardly beyond reproach, and that any argument against him his hardly evidence of hive-mindery. And no one here I think would argue against that statement. That’s just not what we are talking about. That’s why it’s a strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/114 "2009-07-15T20:55:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s the part I can never quite put my finger on. To me at least, the above was quite clear. It wasn’t genuinely malicious, and it didn’t come across as malicious. And I can’t tell why I can tell. > > Regards, > Shodan This, frankly, makes me very glad – it was intended as a light-hearted zinger of the sort **Shodan** ’s one-liners sometimes are, and he evidently took it as such. I tried to figure this out, and here’s what I came up with – **Shodan** and I are miles apart politically, but we respect what each other has done with his life. When he chooses, he can write an incisive and intelligent analytical post from the congeries of perspective grouped as “conservative”. I may not always agree with him (usually not) but when he does one of those, it’s worth reading. Or he can turn a witty one-liner zinger with the best of them. I see remarks like the one I made him, and one he made me some months prior, as being equivalent to the mock-insult banter that friends or brothers may deal each other – done for fun and in token of friendship rather than the opposite. I see a lot of **jayjay** ’s one-liners as being much the same thing – when he’s serious, you know it, and when he’s not, he can get a laugh out of the Statue of Liberty. At least that’s where I think I’m coming from, and where I see him as coming from. I could be wrong, of course – but I hope I’,m not. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/115 "2009-07-15T21:24:11Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I see a lot of **jayjay** ’s one-liners as being much the same thing – when he’s serious, you know it, and when he’s not, he can get a laugh out of the Statue of Liberty. Thank you, sir! _bows_ > [@](#): > > At least that’s where I think I’m coming from, and where I see him as coming from. I could be wrong, of course – but I hope I’,m not. Spot-on, **Poly** , if you’re referring to me here. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/116 "2009-07-16T02:18:01Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Yep. Insult me all you want. But leave Poly the fuck out of it. He’s done more for me than I have for him, frankly, just by his example. I’m a pile of shit; but Poly’s a nugget of gold. And I’m not only grateful, but honored that he would vouch for me. That’s all I have to say about that. Not only that, but Poly has met someone that he believes to be the second coming of Jesus Christ. Really. I’m not making this up. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/117 "2009-07-16T02:24:58Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Not only that, but Poly has met someone that he believes to be the second coming of Jesus Christ. Really. I’m not making this up. I have never met such a person, as people like real tax lawyers who are paid to read for comprehension and analysis would realize. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/118 "2009-07-16T02:54:14Z")
Oh, well, please do _pardon me_, sir. I should have said that you have a strong hunch that you know the identity of (not “have met”) the person that is the second coming of Jesus. Link: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4289265&postcount=28](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4289265&postcount=28) Quote: > [@Polycarp](#): > > I have a very strong hunch that I do in fact know his identity – and his surname is already a household word. If I am correct, he is fairly short, a very handsome young man with dusky blonde hair and beautiful-but-insightful blue-green eyes, slightly disabled by a chronic heart-valve problem, in his late teens today. He will probably be accompanied by a companion since childhood, a dark-haired young man whose heart is given to him. > > And His teachings will shock the evangelical community. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/119 "2009-07-16T03:08:25Z")
That’s rather an impressive bit of detective work, **Rand** , seeing as **Polycarp** posted that almost five years before you started posting here. I’m sure the fact that that very post has been linked to _ad infinitum_ on various unmentionable communities has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/120 "2009-07-16T11:42:37Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > This, frankly, makes me very glad – it was intended as a light-hearted zinger of the sort **Shodan** ’s one-liners sometimes are, and he evidently took it as such. And that is exactly how it came across. Same with **jayjay** ’s shot. It’s the Pit. The kind of thing we do here should be taken only semi-seriously, at best/worst. I actually gave this a little thought, and the best I can come up with for rules of thumb are [list=a][li]Shots in the Pit should not be done with intent to harm. That part I can’t figure out how it becomes clear, when it does. [\*]Shots in the Pit should not be personal, if it makes any sense to say that calling someone a wombat-molestor isn’t personal. That is, they should be directed at things that happen in the SDMB. [/list]The last part is problematic, because if you mention something on the boards, it leaves you open to shots based on that. That’s why I am usually careful not to reveal things that I care about enough to be upset if someone takes a shot at me based on it. [/li] I have never had someone follow me around taking shots at me the way people have done with **Liberal** and **Polycarp**. Maybe my perspective would be different if I had. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829.md?page=7)