# Zhen'ka **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829 "2009-07-13T04:19:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/121 "2009-07-16T12:44:13Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > That’s rather an impressive bit of detective work, **Rand** , seeing as **Polycarp** posted that almost five years before you started posting here. > > I’m sure the fact that that very post has been linked to _ad infinitum_ on various unmentionable communities has nothing to do with it. What does that have to do with anything? Also, I’ve lurked here since 99 or so, so I read all those crazy Poly posts live and in person the first time around. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/122 "2009-07-16T14:27:12Z")
Who hasn’t said something they regret saying, or spoke prematurely or out of context? For me, there is certainly a long list. But for Polycarp, the extreme vast majority of his posts have been informative, polite, and reasonable — not to mention the numerous people he has helped on a personal level. Pulling a single rabbit out of a hat is no spectacular feat. A child magician can do it. If you want to put Poly across as some looney toon character, you’re going to need a lot more than that. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/123 "2009-07-16T16:48:27Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > We are observing that a group of posters are congregating on another board to snigger together about how bad **Lib** is and what he’s said now and explicitly discussing what one of them should say to harass him, and egging each other on - “You should say that, see what Tom does!” “I’m going to go for!” “Do it!” “I can’t because I’ll get in trouble.” etc… > [@DSeid](#): > > Most of us not only got over that but actually learned to embrace our lack of coolosity - oh say by third grade. These putzes never got over it. They are still cool kid wannabees huddled together making fun of someone less cool than they are. I’m in an awkward position here, as my name is on the board in question (link in sig for the curious), so I suspect it’s pretty much impossible for me to post about this without coming across as defensive. But what the hey, I’ll give it a shot. I myself don’t harbor any ill will toward **Liberal** , although I have little patience for his message board posting behavior. He is a textbook drama queen and attention whore, and that is going to get on people’s nerves. People who are persistently annoying in a visible, attention-seeking way are going to be talked about, that just comes with the territory. Have you never bitched among friends or family about someone annoying you all know who drives you crazy? This is not to defend **grossbottom** , who I think was wrong to jump into that GD thread and start arguing with **Liberal** about the whole Cherokee claim. But that’s what the GD moderators are for – **tomndebb** handled it correctly by telling him to lay off. **Jeff** on the other hand asked a very valid question, IMO, that anyone following a thread might rightly ask – why was a four paragraph discussion of **Liberal** ’s self-diagnosed mental state dropped into the middle of a religious discussion? Seriously, that was nuts. I personally think the main problem here is that this is the sort of conversation that used to happen here, in the Pit. Due to the cultural and rule changes in the Pit, people no longer feel they can speak as freely about their irritation with **Liberal** , particularly when some of that irritation has to do with how he is moderated. So they talk about it elsewhere. But it’s not anonymous or a “cool kids” club (_ **Fenris** _ posts there, for crying out loud) – it’s all Dopers and anyone can post. Frankly, I’d rather than thread was able to happen here rather than there, but it is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/124 "2009-07-16T17:23:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What does that have to do with anything? Also, I’ve lurked here since 99 or so, so I read all those crazy Poly posts live and in person the first time around. You’ve lurked since 99? Damn, what held you back from posting so long? It’s like you ate nothing but Fiber One for nine years and now you’re mainlining Ex-Lax. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/125 "2009-07-16T19:28:56Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > You’ve lurked since 99? Damn, what held you back from posting so long? It’s like you ate nothing but Fiber One for nine years and now you’re mainlining Ex-Lax. Who says he didn’t post here before? :rolleyes: ETA: Eyeroll not for you, **Duke**. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/126 "2009-07-16T22:42:38Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I myself don’t harbor any ill will toward **Liberal** , although I have little patience for his message board posting behavior. I honestly don’t believe your first clause, Girafffe. Your second clause, however, is believable, and is the reason why I don’t believe your first clause. > [@](#): > > **Jeff** on the other hand asked a very valid question, IMO, that anyone following a thread might rightly ask – why was a four paragraph discussion of **Liberal** ’s self-diagnosed mental state dropped into the middle of a religious discussion? To correct the record, my mental state was diagnosed by a psychiatrist. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/127 "2009-07-16T22:48:02Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > To correct the record, my mental state was diagnosed by a psychiatrist. So why was a four paragraph discussion of your psychiatrist diagnosed mental state dropped into the middle of a religious discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/128 "2009-07-16T22:54:06Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I honestly don’t believe your first clause, Girafffe. Your second clause, however, is believable, and is the reason why I don’t believe your first clause. I know you don’t. But it’s true. I don’t harbor any ill will toward you because I don’t care about you. At all. You’re just an annoying poster on a message board. I don’t think you’re doing it on purpose, but I also don’t think you can help it, so I’ve long since accepted you as something irritating that’s not going away. You know, like mosquitoes. > [@](#): > > To correct the record, my mental state was diagnosed by a psychiatrist. Fair enough. It also wasn’t four paragraphs – I was going from memory. To be accurate, I should have said “why was a page-long story about **Liberal** ’s mental condition and subsequent self examination dropped into the middle of a debate on the definition of Judaism vs. Christianity?” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/129 "2009-07-16T23:01:29Z")
There is no difference between going ahead and explaining to DSeid why I was having so much trouble understanding the thread, and doing that in one post, rather than simply say, “I think differently from other people.” Then, you would have complained that I’m being “cryptic” and would be wondering why I didn’t explain why I believe I think differently from other people. And the same information would have been dragged out over multiple posts. In other words, there would be no way that I could have posted that would have satisfied you (and a few — stressing the word _few_ — others). It would either have too much information or not enough. You’ve already said as much with your “I have little patience for his message board posting behavior”. You bear no ill-will toward me; you just wish I’d disappear. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/130 "2009-07-16T23:08:21Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > There is no difference between going ahead and explaining to DSeid why I was having so much trouble understanding the thread, and doing that in one post, rather than simply say, “I think differently from other people.” Then, you would have complained that I’m being “cryptic” and would be wondering why I didn’t explain why I believe I think differently from other people. And the same information would have been dragged out over multiple posts. In other words, there would be no way that I could have posted that would have satisfied you (and a few — stressing the word _few_ — others). It would either have too much information or not enough. You’ve already said as much with your “I have little patience for his message board posting behavior”. You bear no ill-will toward me; you just wish I’d disappear. Actually, I disagree: had you posted “I think differently than other people” that already would have been unnecessary filler. If you can’t understand someone’s point in GD, you can ask them topical questions to try to understand better or you can explain in more detail the specifics of what about the issue is confusing to you. If you still can’t see their point of view, let it go. When you find yourself needing to educate people on the magical mystery that is **Liberal** so _they_ can figure out a better way to explain something to _you_, that’s inappropriately making the thread all about you, IMO, and thus earning yourself the title of irritant for people like me. And yes, I do wish you’d go away. I also wish mosquitoes would go away. So far, no luck on either front. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/131 "2009-07-16T23:25:33Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Who hasn’t said something they regret saying, or spoke prematurely or out of context? For me, there is certainly a long list. But for Polycarp, the extreme vast majority of his posts have been informative, polite, and reasonable — not to mention the numerous people he has helped on a personal level. Pulling a single rabbit out of a hat is no spectacular feat. A child magician can do it. If you want to put Poly across as some looney toon character, you’re going to need a lot more than that. What? Are you telling me that if some long-time well-respected poster here just one day tells everyone that he believes he is the reincarnation of Hitler, we should all just ignore it? Poly followed up that original post with a series of posts expalining it. There’s no question that he believes it (or at least did at one point). That’s loony tunes, as you say. You liking the guy doesn’t mean he isn’t seriously weird. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/132 "2009-07-16T23:50:25Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What? Are you telling me that if some long-time well-respected poster here just one day tells everyone that he believes he is the reincarnation of Hitler, we should all just ignore it? Poly followed up that original post with a series of posts expalining it. There’s no question that he believes it (or at least did at one point). That’s loony tunes, as you say. You liking the guy doesn’t mean he isn’t seriously weird. All that said, I’m also mildly curious as to how someone could lurk here for nine years and never find something they wanted so badly to respond to that they signed up. Especially someone as vociferously opinionated as you. It only took me six months, and it was the 2002 All-Star Game that inspired a response. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/133 "2009-07-16T23:53:16Z")
**Giraffe** , Oh, all I did was call **Jeff** a mild jerk (at least until he told me to fuck off), and that was based on my concluding that he had come in exclusively to harass **Lib** as he had no other posts in the thread either before or after. Now since then I’ve concluded that maybe, just maybe, he had actually been reading along and as such I had PM’ed him an apology for Pitting him yesterday (albeit with no response received). Bitch a little about someone’s digression in a thread you have been an active participant in and that’s one thing. Come in to only to bitch and that’s another. As far as allowing, or even encouraging, your board to be a place to have people bitch and moan about how much better they are than that _other_ board, and to urge each other on into snarking on the other board … well that is your call, but I was under the impression that board moderaters tried to actually discourage the sort of thing that often ends up as board wars … not that this will as I doubt any one here has any interest in fighting back in kind. And as for the nature of the Pit here and now. We might stray into ATMB ground so I will leave it that I agree that the Pit is a needed release valve for snark that allows other board sections to be snark reduced, but I think it is still snark permissable enough even with certain words verboten … as silly as those rules are. These latest threads should be enough to show that bitching about particular posters is still allowed as is fighting back. That said I know I may not be the best judge. I generally have spent much time in the Pit and am admittedly a lousy Pitter. I’m just one of the Joe Blow posters who actually enjoys a fair discussion with people of different POVs who neither excites or upsets anyone too much. No famous SDMB character I. But dammit, I enjoy having those discussions move along without snark fights. It doesn’t seem too much to ask. **Lib** , I doubt anyone would’ve complained about your being cryptic and by now most of us regular know your psychiatric history. You can get away referencing it briefly and we will fully understand all the details. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/134 "2009-07-17T00:12:33Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > As far as allowing, or even encouraging, your board to be a place to have people bitch and moan about how much better they are than that _other_ board, and to urge each other on into snarking on the other board … well that is your call, but I was under the impression that board moderaters tried to actually discourage the sort of thing that often ends up as board wars … not that this will as I doubt any one here has any interest in fighting back in kind. I thought about asking people not to talk about SDMB stuff, but it just seemed…impractical. We’re all Dopers, it’s our one commonality. Also, I’m experimenting with as few rules and minimal moderation as possible to see what happens. If GB ends up being nothing but a staging ground for troll attacks on the SDMB, I’ll put some new rules in place, obviously, but for now, I think things are going OK. People are always going to snark, I think it’s more constructive if it’s done out in the open instead of anonymously, as has always been the case before. > [@](#): > > And as for the nature of the Pit here and now. We might stray into ATMB ground so I will leave it that I agree that the Pit is a needed release valve for snark that allows other board sections to be snark reduced, but I think it is still snark permissable enough even with certain words verboten … as silly as those rules are. These latest threads should be enough to show that bitching about particular posters is still allowed as is fighting back. I don’t disagree in theory, yet I have empirical data that shows otherwise: a 20 page thread that took off like a wildfire. There’s something inhibiting about having too many rules on what you can talk about where when it comes to having a good bitch session. Even though few posts in that thread stray into discussing moderation and/or using the c-word, people speak more freely when they don’t have to censor themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/135 "2009-07-17T00:26:36Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > As far as allowing, or even encouraging, your board to be a place to have people bitch and moan about how much better they are than that _other_ board, and to urge each other on into snarking on the other board … well that is your call, but I was under the impression that board moderators tried to actually discourage the sort of thing that often ends up as board wars … not that this will as I doubt any one here has any interest in fighting back in kind. Except for comments like this, yes? If ‘that sort of thing’ is beneath you, why even bother acknowledging said thread exists? It only encourages it, you know. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/136 "2009-07-17T01:12:46Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I thought about asking people not to talk about SDMB stuff, but it just seemed…impractical. We’re all Dopers, it’s our one commonality. Also, I’m experimenting with as few rules and minimal moderation as possible to see what happens. If GB ends up being nothing but a staging ground for troll attacks on the SDMB, I’ll put some new rules in place, obviously, but for now, I think things are going OK. People are always going to snark, I think it’s more constructive if it’s done out in the open instead of anonymously, as has always been the case before. **Giraffe** , I thought your board was a great idea at the time you started it, for generally the same reasons you cite, and I still think so. Even after bitching about the clique behavior. Please continue with your experiment; it’s generally working fine. The problem with the clique discussions regarding specific posters though is not the potential for anonymous retaliation, it’s when they move from snarking (which I fully admit to enthusiastically joining) into unchecked reinforcement of activities aimed at disrupting the _person_ under discussion instead of the bad board behavior that led to the group dislike. It’s fighting fucktardiness with asshattery - with the full approval of the clique. A little schoolmarmish shaking of fingers is sometimes called for. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/137 "2009-07-17T02:16:41Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Lib** , I doubt anyone would’ve complained about your being cryptic and by now most of us regular know your psychiatric history. You can get away referencing it briefly and we will fully understand all the details. Okay, thanks. Message received. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/138 "2009-07-17T02:26:52Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Actually, I disagree: had you posted “I think differently than other people” that already would have been unnecessary filler. No. You’re wrong. I was having trouble understanding both the questions and the answers in that thread. And that was not my first post in the thread. I had posted several times before, and never quite seemed to get it right. It was, in the end, the kindness and patience of DSeid that brought me out of ignorance — which is allegedly the mission of this board. I could speak of things that you would not undersand, and I would expect you, if you had an interest, to question me until your understanding was fulfilled. That’s the whole point of posting, as I see it. If numerous people have explained something several times in several ways, at some point you seek out someone who understands that your thinking process is unusual. Fortunately for me, that person emerged. And now I understand. That’s a good thing. It’s not the sort of bad thing you’re trying to make it out to be, which raises the question of why you even care. If I’m so worthless in your eyes — (were you the one who inserted the “worthless human being” tag?) — why do you care what discussions I have with DSeid in an attempt to understand Jewish heritage, culture, and belief? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/139 "2009-07-17T04:50:05Z")
> [@Syntropy](#): > > Except for comments like this, yes? If ‘that sort of thing’ is beneath you, why even bother acknowledging said thread exists? It only encourages it, you know. I am confused. It’s not the first and will not be the last time I am sure. Do you find something about my comment to **Giraffe** insulting, offensive, or aggressive in some way? If so I am sorry that it came off that way and such was not the intent. **Giraffe** , I defer to your greater knowledge of the Pit and its Pitizens. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zhenka/502829/140 "2009-07-17T13:36:10Z")
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